Shaker Unfiltered: Ep. 9 – Roni Barber and Stef Nikitas

Well, everybody, welcome to another episode of Shaker Unfiltered. We are live at the Vision Lab here in Refest 2025 in beautifully weathered Nashville, Tennessee. Thank goodness we’re pushing it back to October this year versus the hot a September that was the years before. I um I am happily joined here by by two of uh the hardware well I don’t even know how to how to how to call the category hardware. We’ll get into that. Uh ace hardware’s finest. Uh I’m joined by Ronnie and Steph. Welcome. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. So, look, we’re going to have a conversation today that I get to be a part of, but not a lead in, which is new for me, and I’m loving it because now I don’t have to be like all the way on. I could be a spectator, too, and just chime in. But, um, but I think we have a lot of things to discuss. Uh, a lot of places we can go, but I want to start off first with introductions from both of you. Who are you? What do you do for Ace? And, uh, then we can jump right in. >> Awesome. >> Yeah. Right. Uh my name is Ronnie Barber. I am the talent acquisition operations manager. Um and I work with our retail support centers as well as our home services division on operations. So >> hey, >> and then I’m Stephanie Ketus. I’m the uh director of talent acquisition at ACE and uh been at ACE for a decade and have really built function into what it is today, which I’m really proud of. Um, so when Ronnie um actually came into my orbit um really worked with her to get her um some opportunity and she really um proved herself and was able to step into this role pretty recent. >> Yeah. >> Um so I’m really proud of the team that we have built over the last decade. Uh when I think of I first walked into ACE 10 years ago as a part-time sourcing assistant through an agency. Our HR business partners still did recruitment at that point. Now >> Oh wow. >> Can’t even imagine that for >> like town. I don’t do enough business. Exactly. So, we had recruiter. What’s a recruiter? Right. Now, we got 30 of them. >> Oh, >> yeah. >> Growth. >> Yes. >> Wow. Okay. >> Rapid growth, too. >> I’m saying I’m saying. So, you all just came off stage uh and delivered a a riveting conversation, which just the headline alone, the title of it, Fluent in Brand, TA, and the stuff no one wants to say out loud. I want I want to get into the last part first. What are the things that people don’t want to say out loud when it comes to this word? >> You know, um we have to keep current with everything, right? And we have to keep moving with the times. AI is coming out and um I think the change management piece is huge. And I think being able to stay that subject matter expert and maintain that for your the people that you work with, I think that’s the part that people don’t really want to talk about right now, you know. um just the challenges to make sure that we’re staying with that. >> Yeah, >> I agree. I mean, the change that we’ve gone through during CO felt like a hurricane, right? Like weather references, we do that at ACE all the time. >> But now it’s it’s it’s like a tsunami. We’re all getting hit with this AI left and right, right? I talked about it on stage with Joe. Everybody who has AI right now, it’s the it’s the buzzword of the century or the year, whatever the decade you want to talk about. But is it truly AI or is it automation? Cuz those are two very different things. >> That’s a good point. So, how do you discern whether they’re selling you AI or just automated? >> It’s a good question. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I think honestly like big on our brand is the human aspect behind it. Yeah. >> And being the people who are looking into that, we have to be able to feel that when we’re moving forward with a project. And I think that’s what makes it so important for us and how we determine is that human aspect in there because that’s what our company is known >> brand what’s the value ad right >> yeah yeah well that human element is the thing that’s going to differentiate I think number one because at some point people are going to overindex on AI and it will just feel very fake and inauthentic. Uh, I mean, no matter how good the AI gets, you can tell. So, unless you’re looking at like >> videos of Tupac in Cuba with Castro and you’re like, wait, no, >> he’d be way older than that right now. So, but as far as uh the branding work is concerned, we’re still in the business of people, right? Like we’re we’re we’re connecting. We’re the bridges between aspiration and opportunity. And you have to have a human element to that. Otherwise, you know, why have recruiters recruiting functions at all? Anyway, I’m off my soap box. Um, so why did y’all go with that that title? >> Yeah, Ronnie, why did you pick that? >> I went with that title just because, you know, we are in a a big piece of change right now and we’re working on upskilling our recruiters and giving them the tools that they need to you we are big on don’t ask for a seat at the table, take a seat at the table. >> And how do they do that? >> We have to upskill our recruiters, right?% % >> um and there’s just natural feelings that come along with that. So that’s the stuff people don’t want to talk about. I think that’s the interesting thing that we’re trying to break through to >> Yeah. It’s like how do you best go about it, right? Because you don’t want to rub shoulders with the hiring managers who are at the center of this triangle between the candidate, the recruiter, and the hire, right? Like which is the hiring manager? >> Sure. >> Everybody has a a seat at that table, but traditionally recruiters have always been the order taker. How do you now upskill them to be more influential, advisory, and strategic? And that comes with AI, right? So, we keep hearing about AI is here to take all of our jobs. I disagree. It’s not going to take the jobs. The person that knows AI better than you do will take your job. >> That’s a fact. That’s so rich. Uh so I mean I can imagine when you’re trying to upskill recruiters and you know maybe recruiters who’ve been recruiting for quite a while when there were paper resumes uh monster and career builder were the only ones on the the block >> how it started. >> How how are you seeing across generational lines uh the acceptance the embrace or or the resistance of uh these new tools? >> You have to learn a little bit. Yeah, I would have, >> you know, with a team of 30, you’re going to get every flavor. >> Sure. >> Right. You’re going to have those that are your early adopters and they’re going to enthusiastically jump into the pool with you and they’re going to want to be on the front lines of dictating and deciding on which way is forward. You’re going to have those that are kind of in between and they’re like, “Okay, you know, I’ll I’ll listen to what you have to say. We’ll try this out. We’ll give it a go, but I’m still going to be a little bit hesitant.” And then you’re going to have the ones that are like, “Nope, >> you lost me.” And then what do you do with those? Right? So >> we have all three camps within our team and we’re learning education and um bringing it back to the basics. >> Really understanding the why behind why are we doing this? What’s the reason that we’re going to ask you to think differently? Do your job differently? Because for some of them it really is a huge disruption of how they’re used to doing it, right? >> But at the end of the day the business needs it. So we lead with that that if we want to continue to build the organization that ACE is known to be, we’re going to have to adapt and change with the markets. And that’s anything from the business opside to the technology that we get to work with. But above all, it’s the candidates that really dictate the speed of change you’re going to go through because they’re the ones who set the expectations at the table. Now is uh AC’s model centralized or did the store at store level are they doing their own uh recruitment or how how is it working? >> It’s it’s uh >> well it’s interesting because uh we’re so unique when it comes to that. So ACE is a co-op. All of our stores are independently owned and operated. So it’s a blessing and a curse in many aspects depending on who you ask. But from a recruitment standpoint, they do their own hiring and firing. So from our TA standpoint, we don’t touch them. Yeah, >> we get to um help them and so like certain things that we do they benefit off of because we have a centralized website and everything funnels through one homepage but that’s kind of then where the buck stops. So they could have a different ATS, a different process, right? But the candidates don’t understand that. So we have to do a really good job of educating candidates so that they understand, hey, when you come to us and talk to stores, you have to go to the store level. When you come to us for everything else, it’s one team. That’s uh that sounds very easy to do by the way. >> Sure. >> Yeah. Uh and and so on that point then so you have leadership with very uh I would say varied and competing priorities as far as the business is concerned. You’ve got hiring managers who are trying to ensure that they have the right people to achieve the objectives of the business. Um, where are you seeing the opportunities or I guess what is it that leadership uh is not necessarily focused on that you think they have an opportunity to focus on more? >> I would say that um you know everything is a an emergency right now, right? And part of maintaining our brand and keeping, you know, we’re putting the helpful into that, we have to be able to step back and not everything is an emergency. In order to be that subject matter expert, we need to be able to be the ones to say, you know, it’s okay. You know, we don’t have, it’s not an emergency right this instant. Um, >> yeah. >> So, we can make the right decisions and, you know, bring that. So, >> yeah, I would say prioritizing is is a big part of that. >> Yeah. And really kind of bringing it back to the leader um or the seauite to say okay you guys want us to do XYZ where do you want us to start to focus on because we can’t do them all at the same time. Exactly. >> Yeah. Pick pick pick your priority. >> Yep. >> Then tradeoffs. Yeah. And I think that that management of leadership is is the tough part because everything is critical and emergency to somebody, right? Um and and in that case when you get into the branding of it, right? So ACE has a very well-known uh consumer brand. Um but people might not know what it’s like to work for the company, right? So how have you how have you really worked to build the brand that then uh becomes articulated in terms of the experience of being an AC? >> I think just telling the story of our values and what we represent is huge, you know. Um, and being able to, you know, we are that helpful company. You know, you have a a natural disaster in a town, that company’s going to go run out there and they’re going to go help. You know what I’m saying? Like that’s just the stuff that we value and we um we honor. And I think being able to tell that to our candidates is um kind of sets us apart, shows us where that that care is. >> Yeah. Especi exactly what Ronnie said. It’s it’s about creating meaningful work and showing that to the candidate like >> like a consumer they’re asking what’s in it for me if I go shop at Ace right >> from a candidate standpoint it’s the same thing what’s in it for me if I come work for you >> right >> so in the stores we start the customer journey with the question of what can I help you find today >> yes >> that’s that’s ace helpful and so we translate that into every aspect of our operations how we interact with each other through the culture through the values so this helpful becomes kind of the beacon of everything that we do from a human aspect within the organization and we we use that and we really play on that in the employment brand and how we advertise and really try to bring transparency and authenticity to every stage of the process so that candidates know this is the job I’m interviewing for. This is what I can expect in the process from the people that I’m interacting with when I come on site to the first day that I start. >> Sure. Sure. No, I love that and I I think that’s a huge uh point of differentiation as well for you because you are so valuesdriven that has to lead because that’s the expectation once they get in the role. To that point, the talent market today is wild. >> Um putting it lightly. I mean that’s that’s the PG version so we don’t get banned from YouTube. But uh it’s absolutely nuts right now. uh what are you seeing out here uh just from your vantage point that that’s really I won’t say keeping you up at night but waking you up at night >> is it is it wild west out there do you have any examples that you can >> um I think in many ways like the vendors and the people that are attending today or the speakers that you’re hearing there is a common theme right and it is change and the speed of change right now that is disrupting our industry be it from a >> Yep be it from a technology standpoint. Be it how we do our jobs, be it how do we address challenges from our operations teams or our seuite, our leadership teams to how do we ourselves keep up with it, right? Because at the end of the day, we all have a day job while we’re trying to address tackles and challenges and whatever is thrown our way right now to be better to be more productive, do more with less, you know, all of those little slogans that everybody has thrown at them right now. >> Sure. >> So, I think for me it’s probably a big um almost like a therapy session in a way where you know that you’re not alone in this. you’re actually feeling validated >> not only because of your own internal feelings about what’s going on but because you know of the struggles that your teams are facing or the conversations that we’re having internally or even externally with vendor partners you know like the econ economic aspect the political climate candidate expectations you know tariffs compensation inflation all that plays a big factor in hiring now imagine how that transl all of that translates over to the business op side too like we think we’re rattles, you know, think of like some companies that are especially volatile like retail is one of those or manufacturing in America right now with all the changes that are going on. So, yeah, it feels like at times you’re talking to people, you know, in in a therapy session here because >> you’re all feeling the same pressure. >> Yeah. >> I think they call that trauma bonding. >> Yes. Putting the lab will do it. >> We That’s what this That’s what Refest says right now, but the slogan come bond with us through trauma. Yes, I I’ll pitch that. Um I I think you’re spot on and and that with all of the geopolitical with the economic uh and and at the same time you have people who are looking for work. So and depending on what you do those options might be limited, right? So you have people who are making pivots, you have people who are uh you know trying uh trying different uh companies that that you might not have selected before. How do you all stand out in terms of uh not not just how you attract but also how do you retain for the people that are already there? How do you keep them in love? >> Yeah. Um I would say that we’re very forward thinking with a lot of different you know programs and development and and everything. Um, just one example, you know, for our retail support centers, we can bring somebody in as a, you know, in our in the high volume space, bring them in as a warehouse specialist and they can go training to be a CDL driver and expand upon >> and it’s things like that that I think that we really, you know, look into and we can speak that to our candidates. Um, you know, there’s path progression >> so clearly that we’re trying Yes. that we’re trying to build. >> Yeah. I think that translates across all business segments. We’re trying to be really transparent with candidates like this isn’t just a one-stop shop like you come in and you do X like if you want to grow in the organization. >> Sure. >> Ace will provide those opportunities and I’ve worked in organizations where we’ve preached it and it didn’t happen. >> Okay. >> So I I can I I know we not only preach it and we tell people about it, it actually happened. I mean I’m kind of proof of that. I started as a part-time sorcerer, >> became a recruiter, became a senior recruiter. Co opened doors that I never knew I had. I was actually in Ronnie’s prior role as a talent acquisition operations manager. Created that whole function during co to kind of set the stage for where we are today and then was given the opportunity a year and a half to lead this entire department and function. So >> it’s a great story. >> If you want to grow with ACE, it is a two-way street. We will give you the opportunity, but the intrinsic motivation to want to do things has to come with from within you too. And you have to be vocal about it. So that you used a word that I that funny enough I was going to to shift here but it was transparency. >> Yes. >> And I want to talk about that for a second because I think authenticity was hyper it was overused. It was oversaturated for about 5 to 10 years. But I think transpar we we say at Shaker that transparency is the new authenticity. Right. >> But that also comes with being very honest about who you’re not. >> Yes. And I think that there’s still a reticence about, you know, not showcasing the flaws and all, right? How how is a how are you all moving within Ace in terms of we know we’re not perfect. They know we’re not perfect and they’ll find out when they get here, but why aren’t we telling them before they get here? Or are you >> I would say that we are definitely putting um emphasis behind that and we are they’re getting ready to release our new career site. Um and within brainstorming, you know, what can a candidate expect from an interview? What does the hiring process look like when they put an application? What’s the next step? And can we tell them ahead of time? Um and it’s right there in front of them so they can see it. Um, we even put a career path on the page too. Like if you can start right here, these are all the different avenues that you can go down and it’s even bigger than that. So I mean to answer your question like we are doing that and I think that that’s super important. >> Yeah. >> So that’s transparency and the affirmative. >> It’s positive. Show you everything that’s possible. >> Yeah. >> But there’s also the repel. If this is not you don’t don’t apply. So what is that moment for you all where it’s like hey this isn’t easy work or hey we have a culture that’s really tightknit right what are those points of transparency >> we do that too I think it kind of taking it back to when Indeed started pay transparency that’s kind of when we were like all right let’s put the carts on the table let’s show who we’re not you’re not coming to ACE to make Google wages >> you’re not coming to ACE to get hired like Amazon on day one when you apply right so we we put compensation on our job postings we put weight uh lifting capabilities and things, you know, from like a physical standpoint, physical requirements. >> Requirements. >> Exactly. We put um total rewards, what are the benefits, how many weeks of vacation do you get, what’s the 401k match, like like we were like, let’s just put all the cards out there. Don’t let some other third party site guess. >> Do do your job. >> Exactly. >> We want we want a deck to Exactly. We want to control the narrative. >> That’s it. And then from there in our like phone screens that the the recruiters do a fantastic job of really explaining this is the job especially in a high volume space. >> Yes. >> And Ronnie used to do this like this is the job. Are you able to do this? It’s not going to be pretty. You’re going to work you know odd shifts. You’re going to work weekends uh u holidays. You’re it’s going to be hot. It’s going to be cold. There’s no air conditioning. Right. Like we really lay it out there. >> Good. Okay. >> Or you’re driving a truck and you’re going to have to be away from your family for one to two nights a week. are you okay with that? You know, because I will be completely transparent with you or not. And if you’re not, there’s no harm, no foul, you know. >> No, we don’t want to waste your time and we don’t want you to waste ours, right? Like, let’s just be honest and upfront at the beginning of this. >> And at the corporate level, we do the same thing. Just because, you know, a warehouse specialist or a driver has the physical requirements, >> but it’s the same thing if I’m looking for like a creative manager or like a software analyst. I’m not going to pretend like I’m some hip, you know, agency downtown Chicago that is able to throw all these perks at you and give you premium pay because you’re going to find out. >> That ain’t it, >> right? >> Yeah. >> And I don’t need a 90 like a quick quit is what we call them if they quit within the first year or 90 days in high volume space. >> Okay. Yeah. >> So, I’d rather be upfront with you and have you pull out of the process if this isn’t the right fit for you. >> I love and I just want for the record, Indeed did not create pay transparency. they’d like to take off that, but >> they do. >> Shouts out to Indeed, but we we know we know. Um, so so I I love this and and I think the conversation naturally goes to uh candidate experience, which I think a lot of companies are trying to figure out, have been trying to figure out for years. Have you found your fit as it as it were in terms of candidate experience? Are you still improving? Are you tweaking? Is it constant uh work of in progress? I think it’s a constant work in progress and I think it’s always going to be. >> Okay. >> Um and the reason for that is if you don’t change with the candidates and everything, you’re going to become stagnant and it’s going to become um ineffective anyway. So I think it’s a constant state of improvement and what’s working, what’s not. >> Okay. >> Yeah, we’re actually like Ronnie mentioned the career site. So we’re we’re about to launch the new career site which is going to change the candidate experience. It was actually Shaker. >> We were so excited. Yeah. And I would say beyond the website, like internally we’re doing what’s called the ace wave of hiring process and that is going to like shake things up too because it’s going to focus on candidate experience above all like the decisions that we’re making. How is it affecting the humans in that triangle? The recruiter, the hiring manager and the candidate because we want our brand to be a reflection of the recruitment. Right. >> First touch through the process. >> Exactly. >> I love that. Is there is there anything that as you were ideiating on on this flow right this this experience um that maybe you had to sell uh to leadership? >> Oh yeah. >> Yeah. >> During co um paradox >> uh >> so we brought in paradox at the height of co and um the premise was to >> speed things up reduce your time right like like bare bones. And so we were like okay what does that look like? And we were in the camp of we don’t want to automate too much. we need to move, we need to automate some stuff, right? And then it became a who’s moving the cheese where kind of conversation because you’re either moving the cheese to the candidate or you’re moving the cheese to the recruiter. >> Sure. >> Either way, we need the information. So, Paradox was able to come in and really kind of help us find that middle ground to say, “Okay, here is your time suck. Here is your administrative waste back and forth. That’s where you spend most of the time in your recruitment process. We can cut that out from days, weeks to minutes.” And so we cut started focusing on that like what do we want to control and cut out and then what do we do with that time and it allowed us to go back to the intentional human interactions to actually spend time with the candidate not try to schedule an interview and go back and forth 50,000 times. >> Sure. >> So like the automation piece in that was huge and going to the seauite to say okay here’s how we’re doing it today. Here’s what’s going on in the market. Obviously co was a huge factor in it. It helped us because we had talent shortages everywhere. So, it was an easier cell than it probably would be today. But if anybody is in that spot today to try to sell a solution like a paradox, I would say, and I said this on the stage earlier with Joe, what is the problem that you’re trying to solve >> and start there? >> Yeah. >> And then what are the pieces in the process that you need to take off your plate and what are you going to do with the time that you saved so that you can be more intentional and go back to the human interaction. >> Yeah. >> And then that’s the piece that you really need to sell. and then what’s the ROI you’re trying to go after and then what’s the cost and then obviously your seauite your leadership is going to want to measure success in that to see okay I gave you x amount of dollars to do this now report to me in six months after you roll it out is it working and we went through that because we had half the half our camp was in the boat the other half was very skeptical >> and we had a lot of resistance too >> and you can imagine >> it’s not a one-sizefits-all just because you bring in a technology doesn’t mean it’s going to shake things up across the board you have very different populations Every organization does, right? >> Right. >> In our case, we have high volume, we have corporate, and we have subsidiaries. >> And we really just kind of like test, pilot, and then launch for the masses. But even then, when you launch for the masses, it doesn’t have to be the same process for everyone. >> No. >> And that’s something that we like the local flavor of a lot or just the, you know, vertical itself. >> Yep. If it works better for you in a different way, as long as we’re on [clears throat] the same guide here, we can >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> Same house, different rooms. >> Yeah. Yes, I like that. >> Every room has its own expression, especially if you live with teenagers, [laughter] >> but um but no, I I I love that and I can imagine that there had to be some hard conversations with leadership. Uh you know, but it sounds like you you got there. So, if we look at it today, right, fast forward, we’re now uh inundated with AI technology solutions, looking for problems and all that stuff. But I also think um there’s this idea that with the advent of technology, it will enable us to do more human things. >> And I’ve heard I would love your take on this. I’ve heard from a few folks that whatever the time savings we’re getting back from AI, it’s just allowing the other things that we couldn’t get to before to just now fill up that empty space. So, so is it a utopia or is it just going to give us more time to do more things which then drives more burnout? What do you think? >> I think that do you fill the space with extra things? Absolutely. But there’s times where you’re just you’re reactive and you have to be able to find time to fill it in, you know? Or we had a conversation at breakfast this morning like I know what I want to say, but what words do I want to put it in? So then I’m not taking all that time to think about it. I let you know tools. >> Use my tools. >> That’s it. >> Yeah, >> that’s it. >> Yeah. Basically, use them to make yourself better. Use them to cut out waste or like consolidate. Like if you have an answer that’s 600 words and you need to cut it down, right? Like to be more precise and to to get more professional or polished or you know, whatever the case is. Like we’re talking about JT GBT and company, right? Like >> you can do a lot with these tools and it doesn’t just have to be help me write an email. There’s so much and even internally within ACE, we’re we’re challenging our recruiters to use Copilot to do things that they probably would have never thought about using it for. And it’s not necessarily to even automate or make it go away. It’s just to complement what they are already doing, but doing it better and more efficient. >> Absolutely. >> I think a lot of them, they’re like, “You want to record my phone screen or my interview? Why you want to look at it later?” And it’s like >> I don’t know the listen that he’s going in there. But if you can record it to the point where AI will give you a transcript and take your notes for you, that gives you so much more of an opportunity to have that human connection with the candidate. You’re not checking a box. You’re not filling out a form. You can connect on a deeper level and have a conversation. It goes back to quality. >> Say more >> to exactly what she was saying. Like as a recruiter, you do depending on the space you’re in. If it’s high volume, let’s say you easily do 50, 60, 70 phone screens in a week, right? In exempt recruitment, depending on the type of role you’re trying to fill, it could be anywhere from three to five conversations a day. And I think it’s those that are key. High volume might be a little bit different, but those where you need to be a little bit more intentional and dig deeper beyond the resume to really understand, does this person have X, Y, and Z that I’m trying to find for this job? And a lot of it is soft skills that you’re not going to find on a resume, right? have those conversations be recorded by your co-pilot so that you can focus on what the person is saying >> and not typing, >> right? >> And at the same time, while you’re typing and they’re saying things, you’re going to miss things. It’s it’s human nature. No matter how fast you type, let me tell you, I’m a fast typer. >> But even I miss things. >> Sure. >> And so I’ve I’ve tested this out for a couple of months now, and it’s wonderful because I am now comfortable having that person on screen and actually having conversation with them like I do with you. It has changed the way I have the conversation and I pose the questions. It’s becoming more natural like we’re meeting and we’re talking about an opportunity, right? It’s not a check check check type of conversation. And it makes the candidate feel heard and seen. They’re not being scanned is what I like to call it. >> That’s so true. And you get to focus more on the relational engagement. It’s not transactional. >> Going back to the quality. >> Yes. Okay. That’s that’s rich. So listen, I I could talk to you both all day. This is good. Um I want to I want to sort of project into the future if we could. Um say five years from now, AI is no longer the buzzword. It’s as email and the internet. Uh what do you see being true then that is not today when it comes to uh recruitment or talent attract engagement or retent. >> Technology is going to be our friend more so than it is today. It’s going to become second nature. If you think about the internet >> sure >> to your point how how >> different it was 20 years ago. That was another conversation we had at breakfast this morning, you know, >> and I wasn’t there. >> Or even cell phones. >> Yeah. >> Like I I have this battle with my 11-year-old every day, right? He wants a cell phone. Like, no. >> But then I think back to I was a depends on which camp you look at, either a very early gener millennial, >> Gen X. Yeah. >> Yeah. Gen X. Sorry. >> Sure. Sure. >> And half of my childhood, I grew up everything analog. >> That’s And I’m right there at the end of it, too, you know. And then half my childhood I had technology and access to internet and whatnot. And I like if I try to put myself in that mindset of where I was when I was 15. That’s I think how a lot of adults feel right now with AI. >> So I think in five years from now it’s going to feel like how you and I use the internet and our phones today. It’s going to become second nature. >> Yeah. If I if I contextualize that then at 15 I was on dialup. >> Same. You had to have an extra line or else you tied up the phone line for the whole house. >> You unplug and and replug, >> right? But I don’t remember being addicted to it, right? Like we still like plugged in and then we unplugged and then we went about life. This is different. To your point, I think the the the infusion into every day where it’s like an extension of >> I could easily >> Oh, sure. >> Ronnie, what about you? You’re five five years from now, what’s different? What’s true then that isn’t now? I think kind of to piggyback on what she’s saying, the technology is our friend. Um, and those companies that are going to truly be successful and really figure out like what is the quality hire? Are we doing the right thing? What’s our return on investment are going to be the ones that are taking it now and developing their skills to be able to go with the times. Um, because if you don’t, it’s lock in or you’re left behind. >> That’s a fact. Look, if you don’t know how to use the tool, somebody who does know how to use the tool will will be in your job. So, >> uh I love that technology is our friend. That’s that’s such a deep metaphor because I think the more AI becomes humanlike, it could potentially be your friend. >> It could I know. >> All right. Can I ask you a question in turn before we close out? >> Please. You obviously get a different viewpoint because you get to interview people like us in the industry across recruitment marketing, employment branding, talent acquisition, you know, any of those fields. >> Where do you see our industry kind of going between those that triangle of employment brand, recruitment marketing, and talent acquisition, let’s say in five years from now? >> Yeah. Yeah. So, I I have like a a really weird projection of where I think all of this space is going. I think at some point I’ll use ACE as an example. Let’s say corporate uh role at ACE uh becomes vacant. Uh your internal agent, your AI agent will know of that vacancy by virtue of it being logged in the system. That agent then goes out to the market of agents of talent, engages with the agents, finds the talent, the agents negotiate, and then the candidate shows up two weeks later on the date that they were told to show up. I think that’s where this is going. >> That’s crazy, but I don’t think you’re too far off. No, absolutely. >> We’re close. We’re close, right? And I think that is going to change the landscape for all of the tech solutions that are peacemealing solution right now because there isn’t this connectedness. And I think by the time we get to AI is your friend as in like your your best friend. I mean when you look at I saw a meme that’s uh somebody said they’d rather show you their their text messages than their chat threads. >> Facts. >> Listen. [laughter] So the things that we tell our AI like they could be our best friends. >> Yeah. Point being, I think we’re going to remove a lot of the human intervention in the process to get to the objective way faster. And you have your agents doing the work for you. I mean, you’re seeing it now with Tesla and they’re about to activate the um autonomous ride share network. I mean, if you have a Tesla, your car is going out making you money while you sleep. >> Yeah. >> And it drives itself. So, I mean, that’s not far off from everything else that uh our agents will be working on our behalf while we’re doing more human things. I >> That’s my >> Yeah. JBT is about to monetize on shopping. >> They just did. Yeah. >> Yeah. With Walmart and Sam’s Club. >> Yep. >> And then with the Open Jobs network that they’re building, I mean, that’s the next thing. >> There’s a lot coming. >> Oh my gosh. And it’s exciting. It is exciting. I mean, I I don’t have the doom and gloom side of it of, you know, it’s going to replace people. So I think with any >> with any techn with any advancement civilization wise whether it was the agriculture to industrial to industrial to knowledge work to now knowledge to artificial intelligence there’s going to be job loss but then there’s going to be vast job creation that didn’t exist before so I think we also have to just be aware of those opportunities keep our eyes open but you two are doing uh great work to advance uh for sure in your industry. Uh, anything else you wanted to cover before we hang it up? >> No. >> We catch it. >> Yeah. Thank you so much for having us. This is fun. >> All right. No, my pleasure. And, uh, looking forward to more conversation soon. Uh, folks, this has been a great conversation with Ronnie and Steph from Ace Hardware. Uh, and thanks for joining us for another episode of Shaker Unfiltered. We’ll catch you on the next episode. Take care.