Shaker Unfiltered: Ep. 5 – Lola Conway and Rachel Allen

Okay, folks. Good morning from Refest. This is uh Shaker Unfiltered live at the Vision Lab Recfest, Nashville, Tennessee. And I am joined by two amazing luminaries in the recruitment, marketing, and talent space. Yes, you you’re going to have to own that today and live up to that moniker. Now, ladies, please uh I would love for you to introduce yourself to our audience. Uh who are you? How are you? Where are you from? >> Hey guys, my name is Lola Conway. I am the director of culture for Hattie Bees Hot Chicken. Uh we’re based here in Nashville. Um I’m originally from Brooklyn though, so >> DK all day. >> Watch out. >> Let’s go. >> All right. >> And hi, I am Rachel Allen and I lead talent acquisition for 711. And I come all the way from Dallas, Texas. And I’m actually born and bred from the Dallas area, which is >> kind of unheard You have to say that cuz nobody in >> everyone’s a transplant. Yeah. >> Self included. >> Yes. Okay. All right. So, we’ve got culture and we’ve got talent. I know there’s a lot to talk about. Uh there’s a lot going on in the talent market today, but I’ll simply uh start with how did you get into these spaces? Because I always love the origin story because nobody went to school for this. >> So true. >> Rachel, you go first. All right. So yeah, I I lucked into this like most of my peers, right? Um I actually have a finance degree and I was lined up to work for the CIA. >> Um Right. Because you have hidden corners. >> Well, folks, this episode’s over. >> I wanted to be Jennifer Garner from Alias. >> Oh my god, >> favorite show ever. >> That’s right. >> So somehow I was going to turn this, you know, desk job into a field operative. Um I like any good finance student would do went to Europe Europe using student loans right the money I didn’t have smart finance play um and while there my job was rescended so I came home um with nowhere to live and no job and already in a whole bunch of debt um >> but lots of great pictures but so many good pictures so many experiences I’m sure so worth it >> but I tapped into my network and found a job um in mortgage servicing. I was mortgages finance right now. I worked in a call center. I answered phones >> um and unfortunately shared not great news often, right? People were losing their homes or it was foreclosure. Oh, it was awful. I >> soul crushing >> got some thick skin. >> Sure. >> Um learned tough conversations, right? So, learned some really great stuff there. But ultimately went to a staffing agency called Robert Half Finance and Accounting to find my job in finance, right? And I said, “Hey, ready? Let’s get that job in finance.” And they said, “You’re cute. Sorry. Uh, too many years removed from school. Too many years removed from your degree with no real experience. We we can’t help you, but >> wow. >> Why don’t you work for us and recruit for finance?” I was like, “Done. >> There it is.” >> Um, so 7-Eleven was one of my clients at the time, and I got recruited in to corporate side of things through that. I was at 7-Eleven for um 5 years from 2010 to 2015, left and then I am a boomerang. So I just came back at the end of 2021 and I’m celebrating my 4-year anniversary this week. >> Congratulations. Excellent. >> So I fell into it and as soon as I did held on as tight as I could and never looked back. Um I consider myself very lucky. >> Yes. >> To have ended up in the space that I’m in. >> For sure. >> It was where I was supposed to be. >> Awesome. Awesome. Lola, I’ll ask you the same. How did you how did you land in this space >> with Hattie Bees? >> Yeah, in the talent space at all. >> Um, have you ever heard that Lana Turner uh was discovered at Schwab Shruggs in Hollywood? >> Someone tapped her on the shoulder and said, “Kid, you ought to be in the pictures.” >> Ah, >> it’s kind of what happened to me. [laughter] >> Um, >> what was your Atlanta moment then? >> That’s right. Um, I I’m Brooklyn girl. >> Yeah. >> Always been a hustler. Always had three jobs. >> Yeah. So, I’ve been in the restaurant hospitality business since I was 14 years old, and I was a bus girl. Those cute little uh bow ties you had to wear, pink bow ties, and carrying a tray of uh 50 water glasses after the party’s last. >> Did the whole waitress gig, too. Yeah, >> I’m I’m 6 feet tall, but uh 125 lbs, but very wiry. >> Yeah, for sure. Um but I think you know at that young age navigating those social interactions um it really uh built a confidence in you to be able to talk to anyone and so over the years it was you know bus girl then a server then a bartender for 20 years in Brooklyn >> and getting to know people and making sure that you are >> I want to hear those >> navigating and helping to negotiate conflicts and you are exposed to so much. I mean yeah I can open up a a beer for you. There’s not like a huge skill set when it comes to, you know, I’ll make you a margarita, but it’s another skill set to go, honey, I’ll see you tomorrow at happy hour. It’s time to go. You know, and so I’m firing you. [laughter] >> I’m firing people every night. Yeah, >> that’s right. >> So anyway, uh, cut to 12 years ago. I moved to Nashville and I was a server at a restaurant and I was an ESL teacher cuz I needed another skill set and I was a community educator for a vaccine program because I just was always looking for opportunities. And one night the owner of Hattie Bees came into the restaurant that I was working at and I knew him socially. >> Okay. >> But um I waited on him and I had three other tables and uh just had a I was having my night having a great night. This is my night too. and I’m juggling everything. And a couple weeks later, I ran into him again uh socially. And he goes, “Thank you so much for taking care of us the other night. It was so extraordinary watching you and how you um interacted with each table. You know, the information that you gave or, you know, how you discussed the wine or how you described, you know, the ingredients. You kind of just knew intuitively what each table needed.” He’s like, “I’ve got Hattie Bees. I’ve got two locations now. Have you ever considered, I don’t know, restaurant consulting? You’ve been in restaurants for 20, 30 years. I said, ‘ Don’t age me. Um, he’s like, but you’re also like a teacher. Could you not teach like restaurant? And I was like, huh, let’s have some conversations. >> Look at that. >> So, we did and I just started figuring it out and helping. There was five of us in the office then. >> Yeah. >> Uh, and maybe 100 employees. Now, we have 14 locations and there’s 30 people in the office. And I went from a restaurant consultant to the director of HR and hospitality with no background in it, but it just will figure it out. >> And now I’m director of culture because I want to move more into that space of recruiting that people that we want for us and helping our employees to celebrate them and find them a path. >> I love it. So for those that are listening and don’t see uh these uh these shoe game, the shoe game right now is unreal. I would love to just hear. Okay, so we’ve got a pair of classic J’s. >> That’s right. >> And we got a pair of custom ones. >> Yeah. >> So, let’s let’s hear it. Let’s [laughter] hear it. Where what’s the inspiration? Are are you sneaker heads or is this in solidarity with the company? >> We had no idea that we were going to also feel like there was a memo and it wasn’t. But we’re so connected. That’s right. >> Yeah. I’ve got dad shoes on now watching. So, >> I was going for comfort. Comfort over. >> Well, this is comfort. >> Function over fashion. >> We did. We did comfort and representing the brand. >> That’s we’re both clearly, you know, trying to come in representing the brand in the best way that we can. >> Um, yeah, custom ones and using uh 7-Eleven colors. It’s ogre, which is orange, green, red. >> Love me an ochre. >> Let’s go. Let’s go. >> So, we are Yeah, it’s always in the orange, green, red colors. Um, yeah. Repping old school. >> And does the company supply those? So the marketing team put together the design but okay yeah no they did not purchases are on you got it >> create a whole bunch of shoes for every employee but if you are going to do it please do it in this way >> for sure gota they gave you the guidelines >> and then Lola what’s the what’s the J story >> so Nick Bishop Jr. uh one of the owners, founders of Hattie Bees. It’s a Bishop family. Um he’s a huge uh hip-hop fan and sneaker head. Yeah. >> And so >> we thought it’d be really cool um to >> thank our employees >> um by gifting them a pair of uh the Jay’s on their fifth anniversary. So every single Hattie Bees employee gets a pair of sneaks for their fifth anniversary. >> Oh, that’s >> in these colors. the black. >> That’s the reason for 5 years. >> That’s right. Oh, no. >> I don’t need any other reason. >> That’s right. >> I mean, like and and what they go for on the market, too. Like, that’s that’s a bonus. >> Like, that’s that’s a serious >> perk. It’s It’s, you know, it’s like it’s the badge. It’s the Girl Scout badge, boy scout badge. It’s like, yeah, I’ve I’ve I’ve been here and we’re all, you know, part of the family now. >> I love it. >> So, my first job out of college, the one I told you about, we got a letter jacket on our oneyear anniversary. We were just talking about it. >> Tenure. Tenure. You get a leather jacket with your name on it. Yeah. It’s awesome. Awesome. That’s great. >> I love that. So, so look, both of you have tenure in the people business, in the talent business. What have you seen as the the biggest change over the course of your your leadership career, let’s say that? >> Um, in the talent market space, what are you seeing? Hell, even in the last five years, how has it changed for you? >> It’s changing like crazy, which is what makes it fun and exciting. >> Yeah. uh and so glad that I landed in the space. But I mean it goes from it’s a candidate driven market to it’s an employer driven market. It’s so impacted by macroeconomics and what’s going on in the world. >> Um it feels like chaos today. Uh and I think everyone feels that we’re all navigating the space of you know what AI looks like from the employer side as well as the candidate side. So it has been quite a journey. It’s been really fun because we got to and correct me if this wasn’t your journey as well, but really got into the corporate side of town acquisition kind of from the earlier stages. So, we’re the newest part of HR uh as a whole, right? And it used to Yeah, there were head hunters and and that kind of stuff, but most companies didn’t have an in-house team that handled everything, >> right? Um, and so to go on the journey, excuse me, of when that was, um, you know, kind of new to being in the corporate side of things to being at a seat at the table and one of the most valued, you know, roles within HR is pretty cool, pretty exciting to walk through that and all the parts that came with it. Enter, you know, EVP and employer branding, right? recruitment, marketing and um tech stack, TA ops, like all of that did not exist in the beginning. It was, you know, purely f filling wrecks and and putting butts and seats. And now it is such a strategic role and you have the it’s the greatest opportunity to get to know everything about a company because you can you get to learn of every piece of the business and and get to get closer to the business and um change people’s lives in a very fun and positive way. I love my job. Coolest job. >> 100%. No, I I love that you you took us through the evolution of the of the function for sure. HR expanding out and now talent having its own ecosystem. For sure. And Lola, ju just from a QSR perspective, it’s high volume, high turnover, right? >> Um I think some stats I saw in in one of our clients had 90% turnover in 90 days, right? And I won’t mention any names, however, but that wasn’t like uncommon. >> That’s high volume for you. super right. So, and and I’m sure you see the same uh similar for for 7-Eleven. How are you leveraging brand especially when you’re you’re competing for um you know the same talent, right? Especially in the same uh uh space for for food service, how are you leveraging brand as a competitive advantage or differentiating? >> So, in the hospitality business, um we say that, you know, we’re not in the chicken business, we’re in the people business, right? We have to take care of our employees and give them respect and comfort and make them feel welcome. Give them a path. It’s, you know, we’re a family-owned company. So, when you come in, we’re very, very protective of our culture. >> Um, we have our four pillars. Smile and hustle, get to yes, no such thing as a little thing, and is it loving? And so, when I’m recruiting, um, I’m not looking just to fill a role. I’m looking to bring someone in who can inspire and develop others and who has some gravitas, you know. >> I love it. >> I want to make sure that we are protecting our culture. So, using all of these, you know, new platforms, um AI, it’s very exciting. It’s it’s helps so much with um figuring out the time, the timing component, you know, like everything takes time to interview and time to schedule. So making that easier so you can actually sit down and show that candidate some true hospitality >> and find those people, >> get them in, >> schedule them, but then get to know them and make sure that this is the right fit. >> So building the culture into the candidate experience. >> That’s right. Have got to start from the minute they, you know, are applying and through that interview process. And if it doesn’t work out, then um let them know why >> um why they’re not the right fit, but showing them love um >> yeah, >> from from from the get-go. So for me, >> the whole recruitment process was we’ve got to find the right people. Oh my god, we need more and more people. Let’s use all of these different tech stacks. Wait a second. I think we need to make sure we’re going back to the culture piece. We need to make sure that we’re hiring correctly. Yeah. And we’re partnering with people who who can help us do that. >> Absolutely. And I think that storytelling is super important as well. >> Absolutely. >> But no, go ahead. >> Well, something that, you know, really came out to what Lola was just saying is sometimes you need to go back to the basics and in a time of chaos um that can help you really be grounded. And something that helps you really ground is is, you know, knowing what your culture is, leaning into that, protecting it. Um, and and getting back to the basics when things feel so hectic and chaotic sometimes. >> I couldn’t agree more. I I think where the challenge might come in for a lot of folks is you’re clear on the culture. You’re clear on the culture. How do you communicate, articulate, and then make people feel it, right? through a social post or uh or or or a booth at a at a conference or at a hiring event. What are those things where you’re bringing brand to life in ways that are like, you know what, >> your competitors didn’t I I didn’t feel the love through their brand expression as much as I’m feeling. What are some of the things that you that you both have done to really like bring that culture to the forefront or to the to life spirally? So something, you know, it’s a nuance, but you don’t create, you discover, you uncover what the culture is. >> Like bars, >> dude. >> Hello. [laughter] >> Write that down. >> Move to >> No, you don’t. You know, you can be aspirational. Like, don’t get me wrong, right? You can aspire to be seen in a certain way. Um, but you know that authentic word was overused I think a little bit but but there but >> but there but there’s truth to it. It does need to be real um and legit. And so the best way to do that is to ask your employer. >> That’s right. Your employees uh what what >> what is one word you would use to describe being here and why do you want to be here? And then what are what are the similarities and what speaks true regardless of the persona? because you know in both of our spaces you know you all the you’ve got the the heart of the organization um our heroes every day in the stores all the way up to our seauite and and what needs to be true for all of us um that we need to anchor to that but it needs to be real and so we went on this journey to uncover or discover what already exists and then what are those aspirational aspects that we want to lean towards and um and then we we embedded it in both internal and external communications, right? And we’re still going on that journey. We’re we’re embedding it more uh internally, but we’ve been organically sharing what we uncovered through social media so that others can see, you know, what we what we uncovered when we went through the discovery of what our our culture is in our brand. >> Sure. Um, but we’re we’re going to um heat things up, I guess, a little bit as we move closer to our 100redyear anniversary. So, >> 7-Eleven turns 1007, which is pretty fantastic. Yeah. So, >> you’ll start to see a little bit more, you know, um, through our communications and the things that we do that that speak to lean into it. Yeah. And the nostalgia and the history and Yeah. All of that. >> I love that. I love that. I’ve heard both of you mention tech stack multiple times now. >> Uh and we’re no stranger to it in this uh in this industry. Everybody’s got a tech solution for you. But I also heard the juxtiposition of going back to basics. >> How are you finding the happy medium of when to inject tech and when to infuse the people the humanity part of it? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Do so real quick. I think the number one thing is you need to lead with what you’re solving for, not lead with the technology. And I think that’s where we get into trouble. We we find the shiny object and we try to force the shiny object versus what am I really solving for? >> So, you know, especially in this time of AI, something I’d mentioned yesterday, AI should not be your strategy. It should be a way to enable your strategy. >> That’s right. >> So, what are you trying to solve for? or what is the overall business strategy and then AI could be an option. Um tech is is usually an option to enable whatever it is that you’re trying to do. And so I think if you just start from the right place of understanding what you’re trying to solve and then figure out what the tech is >> then you can have a better you know opportunity. But if you layer tech onto a already bad process it just exasperates it right it doesn’t help it. It’s not the cure all. Yeah. >> So, going back to basics is important. >> How many emails and and uh LinkedIn messages and and phone calls do you get from people going, “Have I got a solution for you?” >> But you don’t problem. >> Well, I don’t and I don’t like a hard cell. You know, the best um things that we found are things that we were looking for. Like, I wonder if we could do this and then I’m going to go down the rabbit hole. I’m a bird dog. I’m going to talk to people. I’m going to um compare and contrast and find the solution that’s going to work for me, right? >> And like it’s sort of like the hot girl at the dance. Don’t come to me. I’ll come to you. You know, [laughter] >> I’ll find you if I want you. >> Yeah. But what I’m hearing is have the problem that’s seeking a solution, not a solution seeking problem. Right. So, >> well said. >> Yeah. Well, well, hey, look, I’m I’m trying to keep up with you. I didn’t get >> But is it a problem or is it an opportunity? >> Well, hey, I mean, if we want to get into jargon, We we can we can circle back to that, right? Um we’re going to do >> unlike Lucy and Peanuts 5 cents Pinterest has done. >> So so so tech has been an an enabler, right? It’s helped advance the work that you do day in day out, but I want to talk about more data and insights, right? So there’s no shortage of data, right? Now I remember when data was the problem, right? We didn’t have enough data and then you had data lakes and now you got data oceans. But we I think we all agree that insights are really where you make the decisions not off the data. How are you both leveraging data to improve, tweak, optimize your processes, let’s say from end to end? Where where are you getting some really good insights that have helped make shift? >> Yeah, I think just differentiating between insights and data in itself. Start there, right? Because we ended up with data over >> and you know, even with my teams, I’m like that’s awesome, but what is that telling you? What story >> 100% of statistics are wrong? [laughter] That’s a good statistic. I like that stat. >> You can make >> I did not know there’d be math today. >> Yeah. Yeah. Why are you making me do math? >> I mean, hey, we’re talking insight. >> And it’s early. No. Um, but it’s also don’t get in the trap of um cherrypicking the data that supports the story you want to push either. >> The old internal buds. >> What do they say? Men lie, women lie, and numbers manipulate both. So >> Oh, I haven’t heard that one. I like that though. Um but it’s true, right? And so um try to try to take the bias out of it and really, you know, don’t don’t use data purely to be something to push an agenda forward, >> but try to understand the data and itself and the insights. But I think just, you know, differentiating the fact of insights versus data to begin with, the storytelling, how does it tell a story? Um and then it can make some really big impacts on business decisions. Um >> absolutely. I mean when we when we uh automated 95% of our hiring at the store level, it was led d by insights in why this was beneficial and what it was going to give back to the company. So what was in it for them? Why do they need to care about this story? How is this going to help our stores uh perform better? All of that type of stuff. So I think every big decision does need to be backed and led by uh you know data support. And sometimes you can you can maybe get it wrong and that’s okay. Fail fast, pivot, move on and learn from it. So yeah, >> but make sure you understand the story it’s telling you and not just this overload of a whole bunch of random numbers. >> Uh we had a yeah we had a number uh come back to us last year when we were looking at our manager turnover rate uh from most QSRs. I think uh Blackbox Intelligence said that uh manager turnover was about 38 39%. Right. We looked at at store level for our managers and we looked at our numbers last year and we got some incredible insight. >> Uh 5% manager turnover. >> That’s right. And we were bugeyed and we went, “Oh my god, that’s I mean we we know we we’re we’re keeping people. We have a we’re grow we’re growing. We have a great culture.” But it just reinforced the idea of people want to stay with us. They want to grow with us. We have to protect that and make sure that anyone else that we bring in is, you know, um rising water lifts all boats. You know, we’ve got to make sure that um the people that we bring into this house um care about people. >> Yeah. >> And we’ll also protect our culture. And it just circles back back around like we’re doing something right. Let’s not keep our eye off of the ball. And were you able to connect that why to the uh to the attrition rate being so low? It was culture. It was care. It was growth. >> Yeah. I mean I mean I think every single one of us um in the corporate office we say, you know, we work for our employees. They don’t work for us. That’s right. >> And anytime I pick up the phone, I go, “How can I help you?” >> Yeah. >> Um and they and they just go, “I’m so sorry to bother.” I’m like, “It is never a bother. I was waiting for your call. [laughter] What are we going to solve, >> man? >> What are we going to solve? I want I want to work for her every time. That’s amazing. So free chicken. >> Yeah. Well, hey, listen. >> Good thing I stopped being a vegan two years ago. This is good. This is good. >> Welcome back. Your dreams are your ticket. >> Welcome back. >> So, listen. I I want to get I want I want to make sure that I get your your take on the realities of this market today. It is everchanging, I think, more rapidly than I’ve ever seen. I don’t know if I’m alone in that, but we’ve seen some cycles. This cycle’s different. >> Yeah. >> Um top challenge for you and then we’ll get into some some visioning here. We’ll dream out loud together in a second. What is your your biggest challenge right now in this talent, Martin? >> Yeah, unfortunately navigating the chaos together um is the the biggest challenge because um it’s a lot of gray. We’re waiting to we’re waiting for precedence. We’re waiting to understand what it can mean. um we’re seeing it impact our candidates and we’re trying to keep up with how to make sure that their experience is not faltering but I you know one of the biggest changes I saw is just that number of applications is the biggest I’ve ever seen. >> So >> um it is so up and and so how can you provide the right experience and I think it’s also an opportunity for education. So right now the perception to the candidate is AI is bad. It is biased. I did not get the job because of it. >> Versus if you were applicant number 900, >> I’m not going to find you >> get to you >> unless there’s some kind of something that’s going to serve you up. Um and so what is what is the education uh road show we need to go on to help explain well actually this can really help and here is why. um you know because we’re seeing the reemergence of that black hole. >> Sure. >> Right. Because we’d solve for the black hole through some automating and some lovely messages that would go through and um that kind of thing. But with the applications as high as they are, I feel our candidates are feeling not feeling as much love. And for us, our candidates are our customers >> and we need to provide them, you know, an an incredible experience regardless of what happens. And so we are trying so hard to get to all of them. Um, and ultimately I think we’re going to need a technology solution to enable us to get to all of them, but the perception to the candidate is that’s not a good thing. So navigating that and is our biggest challenge. >> It’s it’s never been easier to apply >> that too. >> It’s one it’s too easy. And and and and to your point, there are so many candidates flooding in. Um, you know, back in the day you had to write a cover letter. >> Remember those? Yeah, remember to >> let people know why >> drive somewhere and drive. >> Exactly. And or or pound the pavement, you know, and pass out resumes. >> But um >> now they’re pounding keyboards. >> Now they’re pounding. They’re doing the one click. Um and I think it’s important to for us, I think it’s our responsibility as a company to show them, not just tell them who we are as a company that’s growing, a company that cares about its employees, you know, the culture. Um, we want to be a very attractive place that people like are dying to work at. Oh my god, I would love to work for them. Oh my god, those people are so they’re having so much fun. That seems like a great job. There’s so much, you know, growth. >> So, if I get a hundred candidates, I want to find the one that’s really really >> excited to work for us. But how do I do that if it’s just a one click? Yeah. >> So, there another hoop for them to jump through because I want to see some effort. I want to see some proactivity. >> Sounds like you want to see a second date. >> I’m just saying. >> Maybe 30. >> We can’t fall in love on a speed date, right? >> No. >> So, so if you know, you also don’t want to make the hiring process too long because people need the job. They need the money coming in, you know. So, when you’re losing them to your competitor down the which where the data and insights come in. Like I know it takes maybe 5.5 days to go from uh click to click to apply to higher, you know, depending on the market in the store. >> That’s wild. Is that a real number? >> Yeah. >> Holy wow. >> 5.5 days. >> Uhhuh. We’ve actually hit below three. >> Congrats. >> Which is >> that’s a whole another episode. >> Pretty incredible. >> All right. All right. Well, look, just just being conscious of both of your times because I know you have uh some stage presents to to give to Reckfest today. >> Over there. >> Uh I would love to get your your vision. Five years from now, what will you have changed in recruitment marketing >> in which part? >> Recruitment marketing. >> Recruitment marketing. >> Yeah. Recruitment talent. >> Okay. >> I said recruitment marketing bias a little bit. I think that comes out. >> Sorry. It just comes out naturally. No, I think um I think in five years, not just the talent space, but HR as a whole is going to look different. >> Okay. >> And um I think what everybody’s roles are going to look different. I think we’re going to be leaning into our superpower of being human. >> Um I, you know, with AI um here, right? Um it actually is giving us the opportunity to shine at being human. Believe it or not, I think I think the soft skills are really what’s going to be desirable. uh in the next five years and to support what that looks like, I think HR as an organization is going to look very different than it does today. >> Yeah. >> All right. That’s a great bold prediction. Uh I hope the generation that did not have to develop soft skills finds them. >> Um >> what it’s what’s going to separate? >> It’s it’s definitely going to be a differentiator. >> Yeah. I’m going to manifest >> we’re dreaming >> my my dream for in five years. >> Let’s go. um less money spent on ads. >> Oh god, [laughter] >> that just you’re just throwing money into the ether. >> I didn’t hear you say that. >> No, I’m joking. >> Just a couple of platforms where like, “Hey, we’re hiring. We’d love for you to apply. Click to apply.” >> Sure. >> Um I’d love for more people to find out about us in a more dynamic way. >> I love that. >> Just so they get to really get to know our company. Um, and how do we do that? Is it, you know, the AI videos? Is it like the POV from, you know, this is the particular uh position you’re applying for? This is a person that’s worked there for 5 years. He’s wearing his sneakers. He gets 30 seconds to tell you why, you know, you want to work for us, why why you why you should work for us. Um, I just would like a little bit more dynamic uh, recruitment and engagement so they really understand what they’re getting into because there’s still people that are applying but they don’t they’re applying everywhere, >> right? >> And they or they they’re like, “Oh, I’ll work there.” And then maybe it’s not the right fit. So, >> I really want them to get to know us. It’s our job to tell them um what’s waiting for them on the other side. >> Yeah. And and when it comes to recruitment marketing, I think we’re strategic, intentional. >> Yeah. Right. Versus nationwide peanut butter spread. >> Yeah. >> Um but where where where are the dollars best spent to get the most value from it? Yeah. >> I love it. I love it. These are great dreams to end on. We’ll come back in five years at Recfest. Do this again and we’ll see what you call that actually came to be that you >> do. We get anything. >> Uh maybe some Jay’s. Yeah, we’ll do five year Jays. >> That works. Well, >> Shaker J’s. [laughter] >> Well, Rachel and Lola, thank you so much for taking some time, stopping by the podcast zone, Shakers podcast zone, and uh thank you for bringing your energy, your insights, and your passion for the work uh to the people. We appreciate it. Enjoy the >> honor. Thank you, gentlemen. >> I mean, I try. >> We appreciate it. >> Thank you so much. All right, folks. We’ll be back with another episode of Shaker Unfiltered coming up.