Shaker Unfiltered: Ep.10 – Summer Delaney

All right, everybody. Welcome back for another episode of Shaker Unfiltered live at the Vision Lab here in sunny and mildly hot. >> Say quite humid, but gorgeous. >> I don’t know what the weather cast terminology would be there, but it it’s beautiful. Uh, I’ll go with that one. It’s broad enough in Nashville, Tennessee at Recfest 2025. and I am uh joined by somebody with a very storied past that I can’t wait to share uh and have her share with you. Sad Delaney Collabor, welcome. >> Thank you for having me, John. >> Hey, thanks for being here and taking some time. Um I look, we’ve got some really good things to get into. You are doing fascinating work, but I’d love for you to start by telling the people who you are, where you are, uh and what do you do? >> Yes. Well, I am Summer Delaney. I am here as the founder of Collab work. We are a communitypowered hiring platform that connects companies to the hidden job market. What that means is we help employers tell their story and advertise their openings in niche newsletters like the Morning Brew or Slack communities, Discord servers, Facebook groups or those pockets of the internet where talent is hanging out. Uh and jobs tend to be shared there. They’re not job boards, but currency if you will. Um, but I was just saying before that I was a journalist for a decade plus. So I was Katie Kirk’s producer for a number of years, still a big mentor of mine, uh, and a huge fan of hers. I was on air at Channel 11 in New York, WPX TV, worked at CNN, did product at Amazon Studios, but every job I got was not through a job board. It was through a community I was in. So Katie Kurrick wasn’t advertising on LinkedIn. I found that job through a Google lister for women journalists. for channel 11 was a Facebook group called the medium havens of 20,000 people that work in production. So thought why don’t we productize that experience and so that’s what’s led me to pivot and be in beautiful Nashville with you today. >> Oh my gosh. So first of all I have so many questions like that’s that’s amazing. So do they send you to like a school where you have to learn to talk like every other person on the television cuz is that that’s a that’s a learned a skilled >> you know. So, I am a proud graduate of Northwestern’s Medil School. Okay. So, a great journalism program in Chicago. Um, and I actually did try to take some voice lessons to try to get my broadcast voice. There it is. >> But the only thing I could do was take a theater class. >> It was my senior spring and it was me and all the freshman theater majors in a requisite class trying to to teach how to talk and I don’t know if I ever mastered it fully, but you know, I try. >> You did well enough. >> Thank you. >> I love it. Okay. So, from uh from journalism to uh connecting talent to opportunities and I I love the concept in that you’re going to where the people who do the thing go to not be like out there but have conversations with each other. It’s like the speak easy. >> That’s a great >> I might steal that from you. So, so uh you know LinkedIn post coming. But no, in all seriousness you’re right. It’s, you know, there are these safe spaces on the internet, started in Facebook groups, have since evolved to Slack communities. Most people think of Slack as an internal employer tool. >> Sure. >> There’s 700,000 Slackers. >> So, these are, you know, >> anything from serial marketers to I’m in a a tech focused one called the Old Girls Club, right? So, these are spaces where we’re having conversations, yes, about jobs, but also about career progression. Yes. >> Salary, what is the latest in AI trends? What conferences should people go to? They’re really these safe spaces that they don’t actually like a lot of vendors in there, right? They want to have these like authentic conversations. And a lot of times the jobs I often say there are two hidden job markets, right? It’s what we’re enabling with our product, which is getting employers in front of these spaces. There’s also a lot of jobs in there that are never put on an ATS or a job. It’s someone saying, “I’m looking, you know, when I was a journalist, I went to that Media Mavens Facebook group. I had a shoot in Salt Lake City. I said, I’m looking for a photographer in Salt Lake City. Does anyone have a wreck? I got 50 emails in a night, right? That’s the power of community. It’s people like showing up and I trusted every reference. Sure. The people in that group had to be invited in or paid or applied. So, there’s that curation at scale that’s there >> and they’ve already been vetted, right? And I think community is really good about who they allow in and then the trust that’s required to maintain status or standing. So, I I love that. That is a brilliant model, by the way. And I don’t think that uh you hear about it like yeah we should be on Reddit. We should be on >> but there’s so much more than right. So anyway I’m preaching to the choir. So talk to me uh what are you seeing in the hidden job market that may be in the the wild uh entangled hot mess that is the unhidden job market. What is there a difference? >> You know I think we’re at this conference and I feel like every booth is bragging about AI, right? It’s like AI this, AI that. And AI has a place and you know, we use AI in our product, but >> a conversation I’m having a lot in the industry is the the rise of mass bot, >> right? Where shooters are being inundated. >> And by the way, if if we’re using these tools, then candidates should be able to use them, right? If we’re if we’re kind of equaling the playing field. >> I think what’s different about these spaces are these are humans in these communities. Right? There might be a Slack bot here and there that alerts you of a of a calendar event, but you’re having these genuine conversations there. I have not come across an AI agent community. Maybe there is all the agents that we’re seeing here today have their own HR tech conference. I don’t know though. >> If we get there, I think that’s called the Terminator. uh the matrix. >> That’s uh you know that’s something that I think what is exciting about kind of these next wave of social media platforms and groups is we’re able to congregate with the tools we have online but we still crave that connection. I think these communities are able to >> so okay so I think there’s a bit more uh uh authenticity there’s a there’s a bit more um human element for sure in the hidden job market which I guess at at at base level as I try to wrap my mind around this this is the this is the best expression of relationship opportunities that come by way of relations I mean it’s not uh what you know it’s who you know >> exactly your network’s your net worth >> that part. Yes. So then AI, how how do you get a well is is AI a concern in that space, right? >> Cuz >> yeah, >> let me let me let me clarify that a bit. So you have the mass uh deployment of AI bots for applicants for uh uh sifting through uh from a CA uh from a recruiter side. But in the hidden market, it’s really onetoone. So you’re not I mean is there >> yeah you know >> harm yeah I think that it’s an interesting question. I think what is happening is a lot of these spaces are having conversations about the use of AI. Like a lot of these groups I’m in are you know a lot of times when you’re in these spaces it is candidates or prospective talent that are open to new opportunities and they’re having discussions about AI and >> Sure. Um, but I think what what makes, you know, the hidden job market in in the perspective of how employers can reach it is showing up authentically in those spaces, right? Having your jobs. You might not have heard of a company, but you’re seeing they’re hiring a project manager in your region >> that you’re now more open to clicking on that job and applying for it because it came from a source you trust, >> from embedded sourc. >> It came from that that network. And so I think that uh you know the techn is allowing us to broadcast these jobs but really the the trust is coming from that if you will. >> Well I wonder is it is it a red flag if a recruiter shows up in those spaces? >> So it’s been really interesting because that is one of the things that we really strive to to balance is a lot of these communities have rituals. They have rules, right? They have engagement. They don’t like spammers coming in and not that recruiters are spammers by any means but that can be other vendors too right outside of HR. Um and I think what you know we’ve been really mindful of in our promise to our partners is we are going to curate these opportunities. We’re using AI to do that curation but learning from okay >> the morning brew is one of our biggest partners. Okay. >> They have you know millions of subscribers across variety of verticals from the healthcare broom to the retail brew tech. We’re not putting nursing jobs the tech >> right. are putting jobs that are engineers, product managers, you know, developers, and I think we’re learning what jobs are resonating in them based on the conversations that are happening in those spaces. >> Sure. >> But we’re doing it in a way that doesn’t make us feel like we’re adding to the noise. We’re doing in a way that’s adding value. So, I think that is how we strive to make sure that we’re balancing that in a in a proper way. >> I think that’s thoughtful. Um, I wonder from the data perspective, right? uh what are you seeing that’s helping to drive insights that can actually optimize and or improve uh the outcomes which is to get people hired. >> Yeah. You know, I think that we have to remember and sometimes we forget with all the tools we have that hiring is such a personal human decision, right? And there’s nothing better than having helping someone get a job. Like when when you hear that someone >> heard about your employer brand or applied to this job that they weren’t on the market for and you know they got they took them 20,000 more in annual salary, right? That that’s a really good story. >> Um >> and so I think that I forget the question. >> No, no, it’s fine. Um so when we talk about the data, right? >> Oh yeah. >> Yeah. you’re you’re you’re obviously able to understand this audience >> in ways that I think companies would like be salivating >> to do. >> Uh what are you learning that’s helping to curate better outcomes? >> Yeah. So I think you know number one what we are learning is you know at a base level right we can track which jobs get the most engagement which jobs actually >> are being clicked on the most which jobs people are actually applying to which jobs people are falling off right they’re showing intent um but they’re they’re not actually following through. Um, but I think also these conversations that are having these spaces, people are are are talking about, you know, ways that what they find value in at work, right? What are um what are benefits they’re looking? What are policies? Are they are they they want in person? Are they missing that connection or do they want remote? Are they working parents? Right? We’re in a lot of groups that have, you know, working mom channels and they’re they’re talking about the struggles of, you know, wanting to have a fulfilling career but balancing also wanting to be able to do pickup a couple times a week. >> And so I think having those data and insights as well, >> it helps show which employers when you know that that is the the cluster of the group and you see, you know, this group is resonating with these jobs over this job, it can give you some really good insights. I think another thing is >> that’s gold. Again, thinking about, you know, we’ve worked with customers who, you know, maybe are in the health, you know, I was just having a conversation with the hospital network. They’re like, people come to us to apply for their healthcare careers, but I can’t get anyone to apply for my finance jobs. People don’t consider me as an employer of choice in finance. Or likewise where, hey, you know, I am in a manufacturing company, but I’m really investing in AI, right, in my workflows, and nobody’s thinking, you know, to build it their AI career at my company. They’re they’re going to a fang company. And so I think being able to highlight in these spaces, no, you actually are hiring these roles. You could envision a career here. I think it’s, you know, a longtail effect, but it does lift that story and gets that brand awareness in a way that again feels authentic and resonates. >> That’s amazing. So I I guess what is the size of this market? >> So here’s some quick stats that I’ve recently learned. I spend half my time at these HR conferences and half my time at like creator community newsletter conferences. >> There are still nearly two billion people every month that use Facebook groups. >> Are you serious? >> Yeah. >> I don’t know any of those people. >> Yeah. Two billion. Come on. >> Billion Facebook groups. >> What? >> As I mentioned, there are 19 million weekly active Discord servers, 700,000 Slack communities. I think the stat that really stopped me recently was 90% Americans subscribe to at least one newsletter and 74% subscribed to 10 plus. >> Well, well, the one who does the one that was intentional. The other nine, they got they got opted in by somebody. Their data got sold. But yeah, >> that’s fascinating. And so I think that there are, you know, and and we’re not even talking about like WhatsApp and Group Me and so many different platforms, but I think that, you know, people are really looking for connection online and finding voices that they trust, right? And that can be, you know, that can be like a major brand, right, that has a a 100,000 people following their subscribe to their newsletter. >> Sure. 150 really qualified people and they’re in there because of the signal. >> So there are all these pockets. I think you know we’re we I spend all my day doing this and we’re never going to reach everyone. No, >> but I think acknowledging that there’s a huge opportunity to actually reach people in the attention economy where they’re spending time. >> Sure. >> Is important. >> Well, I guess with those kind of numbers, how is it a hidden job market? Like that’s crazy to me. Yeah, >> that’s that’s that’s not a small audience. >> Yeah. And you know, to your point, I think it’s, you know, oftentimes we’ll like talk to some communities that are like marketing at large, but like some are like product marketing managers and some work at CPG and Estee Lauder doing, right? There’s so many different flavors of of these roles and these requisites we have. And I think it’s worth acknowledging that like, you know, there’s there’s a community for everyone and there are, you know, these >> the for the first time we actually have the tools to reach them. >> We’re never going to reach everyone, but I think for the first time we actually there are scalable platforms and ways to try to to uncover this this talent. But to your point, it feels like everybody is is there somewhere, >> but it’s also not always people that you’re currently being able to engage with because they’re they’re not on a job board or they’re not going to respond to a recruiter in a Gmail message. They don’t know or I I don’t even know how, but I get, you know, texts all the time from, oh, this job is interesting for you. >> I’m like, how did you get, >> right? And it’s like there’s a group chat of 10 other random numbers, right? is I think that is the way people have been trying to but >> I don’t trust that at all. No. So I that is okay. So that makes a lot of sense that there are groups of people that are having conversations about the very things that companies are seeking to hire them for, but they’re not doing it in the channels that the companies that are going out into the marketplace prefer to put their message. Yeah. >> Would that be accurate? >> Yeah. and maybe they don’t have uh uh the core relationship, credibility or access to some of the places that you do, which I think makes you extremely valuable. Um that’s amazing. So, where does employer branding fit into this? Because I can imagine it’s well I won’t I won’t lead the witness here, but uh where does employer branding fit into all of this? I think it goes back to candidates are really it’s not just going to be a job title that gets them excited. >> Sure. >> Right. It’s it’s a brand. It’s it’s it’s where they spend the vast majority of their their time is at work. >> Right. >> And I think that a lot of candidates are re-evaluating their relationship. We’re seeing a ton of rise. Like one of our community partners is called Fractionals United and it’s just for fractional purp. And that’s something that probably three years ago was not mainstream. >> Not a thing. >> People are like, “So it’s it’s it’s consultant, it’s a gig work, right?” But it’s contracting. >> Exactly. >> So I think there is a really important place of just elevating that employer brand. Right. Showing up in these authentic places. >> Sure. >> And that doesn’t necessarily mean that the candidate’s going to apply the first time they see your job. >> Right. >> Right. It’s like just because you that you have no brand presence and all of a sudden, bam, your job’s in a newsletter, they’re going to immediately apply. No, that’s not how it works. It it it’s showing up consistently, getting your brand out there. Um, and you know, for us, what we what we really work on with employers is some of our partners just want to share direct job content. They they just want to go directly to like the requisite. >> But other partners are like, we want to tell that employer brand story. We want to show you know the benefits we offer, the stipens we have, the growth trajections that you can have building your career here. That’s a huge part of recruitment and and and not only recruitment but retention, right? Of authentically, you know, if you want to say you have all these ERGs, but then they’re not active, right? You’ve misled someone from a public brand that’s not authentic. >> It’s called bait and switches. >> Yeah. And so I think that you know the role of employer branding in a lot of ways we’ve realized as a company is is actually why a lot of companies work with us. Yes, it’s about you know getting applicants in your pipeline >> but in the age of you know mass supplies and overwhelming people want the right candidates and they want the candidates that are showing up intentionally and are again are taking the human time to to learn about your company because they’ve trusted it from a source and then taking that action. that’s going to be a much more, you know, fruitful relationship than just spraying and praying. It’s really about who we say is posting Christmas. >> Oh, I love that. I love that. Listen, I I want to shift gears a little bit if I could. Um, what is the generational landscape looking like in the hidden job? >> Yeah, it’s so interesting. I I would say it’s like generational, but also different industries have different strengths on different platforms. Okay. >> So, for example, we find a lot of our we’re working with a major defense company >> and a lot of their cyber security communities are on disc >> very much so, >> right? But often other times when we work with nurses, a lot of those communities are on Facebook groups >> or when we work with, you know, more soft skills like marketing or people that work at tech companies, a lot of them are in Slack because that’s like a tool you use at work. So therefore, you’re comfortable signing up for a platform. That’s all it >> makes sense. >> So I’d say there’s a little bit of, you know, more more than anything by the the generational. It’s more just like where do you sit in the course? >> Okay. >> And there. But of course, you know, there’s video first is huge with uh you know, Gen Z and and and you know, in younger generations. So I think Tik Tok is obviously a huge channel for for that. And again, Facebook groups tends to skew older, but you forget Facebook also owns Instagram. So, you know, you got to you got to, you know, and that’s what we try to do is we we share these are exactly where your jobs went. These are exactly the platforms that they resonated on. So, you have that kind of holistic approach that >> hey, maybe you want to actually do an event or a webinar with a community that you got a lot of engagement with, right, for that employer branding piece. >> Here’s the data that proves like this is resonating here. You should invest more time on that platform. >> What about Twitch? Have you gotten into that? We haven’t, but it’s a good, you know, >> especially for early career. >> Yeah, Twitch would be good. I think another thing we’ve got, like we’ve thought about is like podcasts. >> I mean, >> I mean, that’s where everyone is. Everybody’s doing >> um YouTube, right? Like there’s a lot of different um you know, ways. It’s about, you know, trying to authentically pop in the content. But I think Twitch is is a good idea for for potentially an avenue for us, especially in like sports and gaming. >> Oh my god. >> Right. Like that’s another thing. a lot of our um some of these industries that like again sports and gaming have such a huge presence on Twitch and they’re really fun industries to work in. >> So it makes sense to show up in those spaces because even if you’re like >> there’s we’ve always like dabbled with the idea of like even like for college or high school students who want a part-time job like a lot of them are on Discord, >> right? So, it’s like, >> how do we get jobs not even in just professional groups, but like actually, hey, if someone’s on a sub gaming group, but you’re a national retailer and you have jobs, like, could you authentically appear there, right? It’s not necessarily a job platform or a professional product, but that’s where that’s where those people are hanging out. >> Absolutely. Well, look, I I would I could talk to you all day. Uh, this is good. What is it that you’re seeing right now that uh that really I don’t want to say keeps you up at night, but wakes you up at night, especially for your business, but >> Oh, I love that. I like that waking because it’s energizing. It’s not stressful, right? Keeping you up is like hair pulling out. I was like, “No, I’ve got an idea and I can’t sleep anymore.” You know, I think that one of the things that I I get really excited about is I am fascinated personally by how many people are building audiences and businesses via newsletters. >> Oh my god. Yes. >> Like I was just at a conference at the New York Times last week. >> Okay. And it was Katie Carter actually spoke >> and it was all these creatives and business people that are like really speaking real value on a onetoone light way to their audiences and I think that newsletters have a huge I mean you feel like everyone has a substack these days >> and everyone has these platforms and I and I think that podcasts are great but newsletter is just like you own that relationship with the job seeker. You have that email. you’re able to to speak to them in a way that’s like in their inbox. You’re not relying on them to go to your plat. You’re relying on them to open their Gmail or Yahoo or Hotmail, whatever platform it might be, >> and having that relationship. And so I think there’s a huge opportunity both for employers to continue to leverage existing audiences that have really high engagement, but also to think inwardly about how can we build our own communities and networks on a platform that we’re so comfortable with and how do we actually like own that one-on-one relationship in a in a way that is not expecting them to go to your career site or follow you on a social media channel, but it’s like it’s a very intimate relationship. ship to be in their inbox. >> Absolutely. >> And I think that there’s a huge opportunity there for, you know, for companies to to really think about that, right? Whether it’s, >> hey, here’s jobs, but also if you’re Disney, it’s like, here’s jobs, and by the way, here is a 15% off coupon for a park ticket, right? That’s building a relationship with a candidate, saying, oh, I’m a consumer of your product. I love your company and I want to work there, right? are offering a gift card or doing just more value that you can add in these channels. I think there’s a really exciting opportunity there. >> I love that. Um I think that’s that’s visionary thinking. And on that on that accord uh and in wrapping up we we like to ask our guests to dream out loud with us uh and look five years into the future and the question is in five years what will you have changed right for let’s say the better. >> Um hope the better. >> I hope the better. Yes. Don’t don’t don’t make it worse. Uh what will you have changed or what will be true then that isn’t true today? I think that will be true then that isn’t true today is we are really going to optimize really showing up in the spaces that we need to be >> okay >> in the sense that you know a lesson I’ve learned from building this company when when collabor first started my original idea was I wanted to be a gig board for the creator economy right I say that story about like CNN and I need a photographer in Salt Lake City like there’s no place to post So then I was like going to build this job board and then I was like holy >> Yeah. >> Why am I trying to get people away from the space they trust? People are already checking that Facebook group. They’re reading that email. They are, you know, in that Slack group. Why don’t we bring the jobs to them? And I think that democracy of democraticizing, bringing jobs to those platforms and really understanding that like we need to show up authentically in those spaces where they are. And I think that that that doesn’t mean we we’re not marketing towards them. It doesn’t mean we’re not putting creative resources towards them, but it’s really just reshaping that relationship about it’s like it’s not about collab work as a platform. It’s about you being the employer being there and the job seeker feeling that trust that exists that it’s there. They’re not marketed to, but it’s just a it’s a it’s a synergy of it makes sense for me to be there and it makes sense for you to know I’m here. I think that relationship I think we’re going to only continue to see that shift in really just >> understanding and acknowledging that like we got to respect where people are paying attention and we got to show up there. Well stated. I I hope that becomes the future vision u and you’re working to make that a reality. So, thank you. >> Oh, thank you for having me. >> Absolutely. Uh well, folks, I hope that you have uh enjoyed this as much as I have. I I feel lucky to be honest. Um and yeah, definitely uh be sure to check out uh Summer’s work at Collabwork. Uh visit us at shaker.com uh for all of the the things recruitment, marketing, uh talent, brand, talent, attraction, martekch, and analytics. And we will see you on another episode of Shaker Unfiltered soon. Thanks for tuning in with us.