When Relationships Matter: KeHE’s Partnership Approach to Talent Challenges

[Music] want me to answer the answer because I I I don’t want to. >> All right, Zach, why don’t you uh tell us about Khe Distributors um about your role there um and something people should know about your organization? >> Yeah, so Kah, we’re a employeeowned about $9 billion food distributor. Really kind of specializing within the natural organic specialty space out to retailers. So think about locally here in Chicago land. Think about Pete’s, Fresh Time, Jewel Oscar, nationally, Kroger, Albertson’s, things like that. Um, my role, right, so I lead up corporate and commercial recruitment as well as our recruitment marketing and our campus strategy. >> Awesome. You’ve been with Kah for for some time, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. So, previous to K, I was a head hunter and Kahi was one of my customers and then I ultimately just sold myself in there. So, I’ve been with Kah for six years, but I’ve recruited for the business for almost a decade now. How was that switch from the kind of agency staffing side to corporate? >> Yeah, it was a switch for sure. Um, so when I when I joined Kah, I was one of three of the first TA people, right? Like TA was not a function really primarily. So first getting there and just kind of looking at everything specifically more in like the operation space, right? >> Yep. >> Agency is so metrics driven >> that when I came internal and we had nothing, I was like what is this? >> Yeah. like where why don’t we have metrics why don’t we have those things so really kind of just focusing on building the right structure and the right infrastructure and how we support the business was one it was a huge lift but ultimately like it’s been so fun to just build and create and see where we are now right to be one of three to now we have a team of 20 it’s it’s been a fun journey for sure >> yeah I think um you know it makes a lot of sense kind of you have an organization that may not have um viewed talent acquisition or recruiting and kind of the metrics driven kind of business results u business driving function that it is. And so I would think you kind of saw it as somewhat of a blank slate to kind of um create that for Kahi. Um and from you know working with you guys for a few years you know I consider you a very advanced metric driven sophisticated um talent organization in a lot of aspects of talent um acquisition and attraction. Um, so that that’s pretty cool kind of being on that journey with Kahhee, which has also been for Kah a big kind of journey of growth from in those last six years as as a company and and revenue and all that. >> Yeah, I mean it’s been double digit growth for the last probably over a decade. >> That’s awesome, >> right? Like and conservatively we talk 13% year-over-year. It’s more than that, right? Like it’s you know when I joined 2019 we would have been just about 4 billion, right? So you’re talking in 6 years from 4 billion to 9. Um right we have we have aspirations out there for 15 billion right within the next 3 to 5 years. You talk with the leaders in our business 15 is not it. They already have their eyes on 2020 you know 20 billion 25 billion. Um so yeah it’s it’s an exciting time. There’s no doubt about it. And it’s it’s just constant constant pressure on us right I think which is also good to bring in the right level of talent which is just that’s always a ongoing thing. >> Yeah. I know you actually kind of I’m going off script here a little bit. Um, but I’d be curious to know your take on you know how Khei as an organization views talent and missions you have there as part of the overall growth uh how that’s changed like how does Kahhei view the importance the significance of talent acquisition as part of its its business growth? It’s it’s huge, right? Like we have a seat at the table and I don’t know that you can always say when you look at leadership teams like does HR have a seat at the table? Do they have a voice at the table? Are they driving the future of the business? And you know I would I would argue that yeah we absolutely do right and it’s it’s come with results. It’s come with a lot of trust from the business. Um right even you know we look at last fiscal year we took on more confidential searches for leadership right things that typically would have gone outside the agencies like no you guys have the skill set to go do this and we’ve seen senior leaders senior vice presidents executive leadership team come from from the work that we’ve done um which is which has just been awesome. >> Awesome. Thank you for that. Um so we’ve been working together for a few years. um if you can remember how did we first connect Kahhei and Shaker? >> Yeah. Um it’s twofold, right? So one, there’s, you know, we brought in a VP of talent back in 2021, I want to say is when Ed Crow joined our business. He used to lead up, you know, recruitment and talent attraction when he was at Lowe’s. So he came over, he’s looking at our business and was like, “Hey, how do we professionalize? How do we take this thing to the next level?” And, you know, he came to me and he was like, “Hey, do you do you know Shaker?” And I kind of like sat there and I stared at him. I was like like Shaker recruitment marketing like yeah I know Shaker. And for me it’s a little bit more of a personal thing, right? Like my sister went to University of Wisconsin with a few different Shakers. And so I’ve known you know the family business I think for quite some time but I never really knew like what the scope was. >> Sure. >> So you know when he when Ed joined and he was like this is what I want to do. I think it’s going to help take us to the next level from how we go to market and how we try to attract talent. I was like yeah. I was like let’s let’s do it. Right. Right. So, it was kind of this like perfect blend of someone moved businesses, had a great relationship with you guys, and then also just, you know, for me and the personal side of it, it was great to see those two things kind of married together. >> It’s a it’s a classic Shaker story. We we have a a mantra here that relationships matter. But, you know, beyond that, you know, I remember uh those early days and I remember thinking like, wow, I think we really do have a very strong fit here. Um we can we can grow together. Um and we have. So, it it’s been a lot of fun and we’re we’re super grateful uh to you and to Kahi for that. Okay, Zach, what are um some challenges uh that that you’re facing that that keep you up at night? >> Yeah, I think from a like a recruitment lens, right? It’s it’s twofold. There’s our business, you know, from a frontline hourly perspective, right? the labor market is is tight, you know, when it comes to that. And obviously, we’re we’re a growing business and we have constant demands to have on-time deliveries to our customers. And so getting the right talent in our distribution centers that, you know, the job’s a fit for that person. I think it’s it’s so important to, you know, can this person do the job? It’s also, is that job the right fit for that person? And it’s trying to find that perfect blend of that. We’re doing a whole transformation as a business right now and rechanging, you know, role and onboarding and what that experience looks like so that their experience when they’re onboarding is actually an experience that they’re going to have on the job. >> Right. >> Right. Which I think is huge. So, you know, that’s that’s a piece of it because obviously us to get cases out the door is is how we put food on the shelves across America, which I think is great. Um, and then secondly, right, it’s it’s just on the corporate and the commercial space as well of, you know, in this high growth mode of of where we’re at. You know, we don’t want to necessarily hire for the business that we are today. We want to hire for the business of of where we’re going. Um, which creates its own complexities, right? Like you’re talking about going after talent at a 15 billion, 20 billion mark, which is you’re talking Fortune 200, right? >> Right. Fortune50. those come with other types of price points that necessarily can make internal customers uncomfortable, right? So, how do we navigate that? How do we go for what is the right level of talent that not only gets the job done today but also is going to feed the future? And so, that’s it’s a huge part of it, right? Like that’s it’s it’s challenging and it takes a lot of takes a lot of seats at the table, right? To talk through some of those things. >> Yeah. Yeah. Especially with a business the size of yours. I think you know it’s interesting too you touched on that onboarding piece for for me a challenge just in the recruitment space is just trying to create some kind of connectivity and reality from like the first touch of like a candidate and I’m often really you know kind of thinking from the candidates’s perspective um all the way to like your first day and your year and multi-year anniversary. I think that’s an area where our industry has grown but but has you know further growth to be had um in terms of like you know what is actually kind of fair and helpful to the candidate and then valuable to the company and are we you know >> selecting people the right way or putting them in in the right spots for both of us to succeed. Um, and from my observation with with Kahi, you you guys have always done a really good job of kind of seeing the whole process um, from some of the work you do around measuring their quality of hire um, from a retention and performance standpoint um, and you know, tying that to, you know, some of the investments we make to to attract talent um, is is really impressive. But yeah, the um, growth is a good thing, but it definitely comes with, you know, a unique set of challenges. One of the things that that I’ve loved working with Kahi the most um about is your commitment to hiring hidden talent, opportunity talent. Um and that takes a number of forms. Um but you know over the years Khe’s been you know become a leader in this realm particularly around fair chance hiring. Could you just kind of tell us more about your story from you know the beginning to where we are now and what that looks like today for your business? Yeah, I think it’s, you know, it’s a lot of different there. This kind of come up in a few different think tank, right, type of ways. I think first time that that I heard about this, I was actually out in the field when I was covering warehouse operations and I was in Chino, California. I was sitting with our site leader and our HR director at the time and we were just talking about the labor challenges, specifically overnight shifts, right? And they’re like, how do we how do we address this? And we were all sitting in the room just kind of talking about it. And within our Chino facility, there are three incarceration facilities within two miles >> and and nobody nobody’s applying to the night shift jobs. >> Yeah. Exactly. Right. And so we were like, can that be a solution? Can we look at a work release program where individuals, you know, within their last year of a sentence or something, is that something that we could look at? And I don’t have that background, right? Like that is not it’s not my forte, but I thought about it. I’m like, man, that just makes so much sense. And there’s businesses that do do that. So if they can figure it out, we can figure it out. Yep. >> Right. And so I came back from Chino and I sat down with Ed Crow, right? And Ed at the time was reading Untapped Talent, right? Which is just it’s a great book about hiring individuals with a criminal background. Um and it it was for him he was like, “Aha, like >> yes, I’m reading this book and this aligns with this.” And so, you know, Ed ended up going out to a conference out on the east coast which was, you know, again, just a think tank talking about trends within within this space and ultimately he got introduced um to who is now our senior program manager, Harris Rollinger. >> So, you invested and you know the program and people to support it. >> Yeah, it was, you know, he had this vision, Ed had this vision, we sold it to our our board and our executive team of no, we’re going to make an investment internally. We are going to build a best-in-class program. And I remember Ed going up to, you know, to some few different leaders, you know, within that space as well and was like, “Who’s the best at this?” Yeah. And they’re like, “You need you need Harris.” >> Right. And very quickly, we got Harris in front of us and >> the the thought leadership, the passion, the spiritness that’s there. Um, you can’t teach that, right? Like that’s that’s living experience. that it’s a guy that you know was working for the attorney general’s office in Colorado that was leading this up for the entire state and >> yeah I mean ultimately we told him like we want to be a leader in this and for him to leave nonprofit and government and then to come internal it’s been a whirlwind for him >> but >> man you put that person you put him in front of some of our business leaders and the passion that comes there he will challenge the status quo right he will question your own beliefs on why you think you should go do something. And it’s that type of work that makes this work so profound, I think, for us. >> Yeah, it it it’s it’s pretty amazing. You know, I think um just through my work um in in the fair chance space, you know, there’s a lot of misconceptions about it. Um I think one of the the first ones is that, you know, business leaders, people in general can view like, you know, an organization investing in fair chance hiring as somewhat like a charitable endeavor. uh but it’s it’s really not you know uh fair chance hiring will provide an organization if executed properly with a strategic business advantage over your competitors over uh just in the talent space. Um so that’s something I you know I’ve come to believe and I think it’s you know a big part of of your growth story too. I know um I understand it’s a significant portion of your hires now are coming from fair chance and of course it’s it’s nothing’s perfect. there’s always challenges. Um, but you know, it’s just something that you continue to push forward. You you see results and you kind of keep on growing the the program. Um, so it’s been a fun ride with you guys to to kind of observe that and learn from you and Harris and Ed. Um, how the fair chance hiring world works. Um, I still think it’s massively undertapped. like you know I I think too like what you guys did in um starting with that executive leadership buyin um you know that’s kind of like the first step if you have that which you guys were able to secure um then a lot is possible and other peers in the space that’s that’s where I’ve seen the kind of make or break moments. Yeah, for sure. Right. And it’s also like you know where majority of this work today is is happening and obviously this will continue to evolve and get more into our cor corporate and sales you know environments but it’s really happening within our distribution centers and so you know what what Harris has also just done a phenomenal job of is boots on the ground going to the distribution centers and asking the tough questions but then also listening. Right. >> Right. And I think that that’s the part that if you’re going to do this type of work or really any type of work that’s just new to a business, right, you have to put yourself in the shoes of that operator and understand like what’s your hardship and can this be something that solves that, right? We have a turnover problem. >> Sure, >> not we’re getting better, but you look at what the statistics are around hiring an individual with a criminal background, right? their retention rates are through the roof, right? And >> no one necessarily wants to always like believe that per se, but we have the data. And when we can showcase our data of our hires against a traditional hireer, quote unquote, let’s say, >> and the retention is higher >> and you’re telling me as a box leader that you want to hire individuals that are going to stay and present you to that, it’s like, >> well, look, we we can do this, right? So yeah, it can turn naysayers into believers, you know, fairly quickly. And I think, you know, you can see, >> you hear the impact of of what this can be on someone’s life. And, you know, for those that are are willing to talk about it and share, right, it’s meaningful. Like, you can sit in a room and all of a sudden it’s like, wow, this job got that person their first apartment. This job got somebody out of living in their car. This job gave someone insurance for the first time in a decade. Like that’s that’s impactful, right? And as as people, it’s hard not to be inspired by something like that and so motivated and spirited to keep doing just what’s right. But it’s not only like the right thing to do, it’s just it’s good for business. Like it just it genuinely is. I think people don’t think that way sometimes. >> No, I I I I I don’t think so. I think um and you know you and Harris and Ed where it stops is you know um and I don’t want to brush over this like to to really execute it a lot of tough conversations have to be had like things that we don’t normally talk about because you know totally you know a fair chance advocate um in one sense but on the other side of that you know it’s reasonable for individuals currently at the company to have concerns about that um and so it’s something that you know like you’re saying you kind of have to build that belief um you have can meet people where they’re at. Um, and you know, create a program that’s, you know, equitable and sensible for for all. And it just it’s not like flipping a switch, right? Um, so I think you guys did that. I mean, continue to because, right, situations pop up and, you know, there’s complexity, you know, taking someone that was recently incarcerated, they don’t have a license, they don’t have transportation, housing is a big problem for this population. Um, and of course employment, which which you’re solving and helping with those those other things as well. So there’s just a litany of of of things that can come up that you know have to be addressed. >> Yeah. And I I mean I’ll I’ll never forget like we were sitting down with with a consultant in this space and you know they were just kind of advising you know how do you build best-in-class program and you know she asked me she was like you know Zack how do you know that you have a good fair chance program and I was like well it should live and breathe just like the rest of our TA pipelines do right like our goal is that if someone comes in with criminal background or an adult with a disability or an immigrant or refugee any of that right? That they are part of just our standard pipeline that an interviewer does not know that that person is any different from you or me. >> Sure. >> Right. Like that’s the goal and we had growing pains with that where it’s like we wanted to call it out. Right. But then it’s are they walking around with a scarlet letter, right? And people know and then they get ostracized, right? And you don’t want that. So yeah, it’s come with a lot of learnings for us and now it’s like how naturally can we just weave this in and this just becomes part of our culture and who we are, right? And if you know for us as again employee owned business and you know we have the third party subsidiary with Khe Cares like it just matches so well to what our business stands for >> that like >> why wouldn’t we do this? >> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Um so to to pivot um here a little bit uh because you started kind of talking about talent pipelines and we’re talking a little bit too about challenges in in in the future and we can’t have you know a TA interview/podcast without talking about AI. Um so you know you know K is an organization that leverages AI now in the hiring process. Um, you know, I’m interested to hear your perspective on that and kind of how you’re prioritizing AI, where you think it may fit in in the future, um, in terms of like hiring and and people um, and all that. >> Yeah. You know, I think AI can be a wonderful thing. >> Sure. >> But I also think it could be overleveraged, >> right? Like I think, you know, as cliche as it sounds, like, I think AI should enable the work, but it shouldn’t be the work. >> Yep. >> Right. like we’re in human resources, human resources, right? Not AI resources. Um, and I think, you know, if you think about a candidate and a candidate’s journey or even an applicant, right, whether you are gainfully employed or you actively looking for work, looking for a new job is a terrifying thing. >> Yeah. >> Right. You’re talking about one of the single biggest life decisions you’re going to have is your career. The thing that is putting money in your bank account that is paying your bills and keeping a roof over your head and food on your table. Yep. >> We can’t take that lightly. >> 100%. >> Right. And so it’s all about that candidate experience and that can get lost when you overleverage AI. I think you know AI to make workflows better and clean up systems and maybe an automated message here there help with scheduling and take those mundane tasks off a recruiter to free them up to be more engaging with the person that’s in front of them. >> That’s the goal, right? like where I think some businesses could potentially be moving away from that is how fast can we get candidates who filter through our ATS because we put these three things were were main importances right for that job cool I may have a thousand applications and they get filtered and now I have the top ones are those the top resumes or are those the best people right and I think that those that gets lost and so yeah >> you know I I believe in AI we invest in AI tools Right. We have them. Um I think they’re great when they’re used properly, but you know, I encourage my team and myself always to be like, put the person first. >> Yep. I I think that’s where where we’re at, too. It’s just kind of a been an interesting sequence of events, right? Where um you know, 2021, 2022, front end of 2023, we had you know, a labor crisis. It was you know, in largely a volume problem. We do not have enough people to fill these roles. And so that was also kind of you know the very kind of early times of of modern AI. So in in in that sense we really thought about uh AI is like automation right how can we in the hiring space get people through the funnel more quickly and more efficiently um and providing a frictionless um process. However now as the the labor market has stabilized become a little bit more normalized um you’re you’re kind of seeing a swing back like wait maybe there is a healthy amount of friction. So maybe the application of AI is not you know solely to be automation of course on those mundane tests and nobody likes to do like scheduling. Um but you know we think it’s more about like enrichment like how do we make the human experience better. Um so I I totally agree and I think it’s just been an interesting swing as as the labor market has changed the last few years. It makes sense why it’s happened this way but it’s exciting to me too cuz um it it’s you know hard to hard to know really how it’ll be used. I don’t know how long it’ll be till the robots are just walking around and that’s normal. Um but in the hiring space, um I’m very optimistic about it. We just have a >> a ton of manual painful things. I mean, you brought it up searching for a job. Like that’s, you know, the worst job out there. It’s easier, you know, generally to get approved for a home loan or buy a car than it is to, you know, totally hear back from a recruiter. A lot of people feel that way. So, um >> yeah, just go scroll LinkedIn and read people’s comments >> all day, right? like and I do too cuz it tells us like where we have an opportunity and where we can make a difference and you know in I feel like in this space there is nothing more validating than a candidate whether they are moving forward or if they get rejected to say like you were transparent >> totally >> you gave me a great experience I knew what to expect your timeline matched up with where it was and if it worked out fantastic right we have somebody who hopefully right now their experience working with us is exactly what we sold it if they didn’t we kept a network open y Right. And I think that work just can’t get lost. >> No, I agree. Okay, Zach, thank you for coming to our Shaker Vision Lab. >> Thank you for having me. >> Yep. Absolutely. You know, we we ask everyone um that comes and visits with us uh one question and that is what is your number one piece of advice for talent leaders >> for this year and for the future for >> we’ll say this year. We’ll say this year. Um yeah, I think it it still comes back to the experience, right? Like you have we have to put that person, that candidate first. And it’s also the internal experience. We have to make it so easy to work with us, right? Just internal stakeholders from a talent acquisition perspective. You have agency recruiters, and I know this myself, right? Agency recruiters are banging on the door of every business to try to get business. >> Sure. Don’t let them outwork you. Don’t let them out hustle you from an internal standpoint. Build the trust and the advocacy internally. And you would be stunned at the cost savings that also can come with that, but also just how much better you can recruit for that business. And that’s that’s something that just keeps on giving, right? So if you ever feel like it’s slow or you’re not doing enough, go talk to your business leaders and build that experience of like I want I want to go solve your opening with talent that actually fills a gap, not just fills the role, right? And so yeah, that’s that’s what I would say. It’s all about creating experiences internally and externally >> and having those relationships. >> Relationship is everything. >> Absolutely. Awesome. [Music]