Employer Branding Unfiltered: S1 Ep.6 – Cristal Mikenas

I think that the comms and employer brand recruitment marketing uh World operates similar to a sibling Dynamic right like employer brand or recruitment marketing can seem like the annoying little sister who’s who’s trying to steal the jeans out your closet and the comm’s team is the older sister trying to go out on on a date tonight you know we can be a pest but in our best moments when we’re really jiving and getting each other it can be amazing we create memories and content and experiences that will stand the test of time but there’s definitely a little bit of that push and pull [Music] [Applause] [Music] all right everybody the time is here I have uh probably one of the most exciting and Brilliant luminaries in employer branding space that I’ve had uh some conversations that I was like you know what these need to come on employer branding unfiltered so without further Ado Crystal mckennis welcome to employer branding unfiltered thank you thank you if only I saw myself through your eyes I would be far better off um appreciate the kind words I’m so excited for this conversation every time we connect we really just get into uh the fun stuff and I always walk away with a new idea or fresh perspective and I find myself thinking for the next couple days so I’m just absolutely honored to be here and so glad to welcome others into the conversation too absolutely yes yes we’re going to get into all of the things and and for frame of reference folks uh when Crystal and I get together we we have such a we Dream Out Loud together and the things that we walk away with like [ __ ] we we need to do all of that who’s paying for it and when can we get started um so we we’ll get into a lot of those things today but um I would love for people to just get a quick introduction to get to know you what do you do and uh you know what are you doing in the EB space yeah absolutely So currently I am the head of gold employer brand and recruitment marketing at teada which is a top 15 pharmaceutical company we have about 50,000 people across 80 countries and we are committed to delivering um drug products that can help patients with unmet needs so it’s definitely very inspiring work work to be proud of and I feel very fortunate to be building my team in this moment uh we’re getting ready to unveil our refreshed EVP our new employer brand strategy so of course a ton goes along with that rolling out a new career site reviewing all candidate coms from first touch to when they become an employee really making sure that we’re able to Showcase that culture and really help candidates internal external potential really get a true feel for what it’s like to work here so it’s really exciting and I have a wonderful team uh that’s helping to to execute on that but in general when you ask me what I do and who I am to my core is probably a Storyteller my favorite part about this work and a part of why I’m so passionate about this space is just being able to listen to and celebrate those moments and experiences that that people have um you know finding a new opportunity and finding a a career that really pequs your interests and and meets your needs and your passions is a special moment it’s one of the big moments in our lives so being a part of that and being able to capture that story and to celebrate and recognize people for the work they do um I would say that is what I do to my core I help people tell their stories oh my gosh see see folks this is why she’s here this is clear passion for the work that we do and I think uh you articulated it beautifully uh how how important this work is to like people’s like real lives it’s more than just putting butts in seats so thank you for that um I I my natural followup is when did you it’s a question that I ask all guests but when did you fall in love with employer brand let’s see so I think a clear-cut answer is probably 2015 but if I am to get a little bit more creative with it I would say I think I’ve probably always been in love with employer brand but I didn’t know what it was yet I’ll say this ever since I was young I’ve always been very career oriented and motivated and I remember being 14 15 even before I was allowed to work I was out on the hunt looking for a job dreaming of jobs and and I have always found as corny as it sounds I’ve always found a lot of purpose and meaning in my jobs and in going to work and I think part of that comes from my upbringing you know I grew up with a single mother from a strong uh Latina Le family and um hard work was always instilled in me so for me it’s such a critical aspect of my life it it is so connected to my identity and I’ve always enjoyed going to work I’ve always found excitement in it and I saw that not everyone was the same way so in every role I’ve had from working in events to nonprofits Hospitality all of that whether it was in my job description or not I always try to find a a an area where how do I make this EXP experience positive and how do I create an environment that people are excited to walk into every day one that allows them to really connect back to the mission of the company and and feel valued so that was always important to me and I’ve always been interested in what motivates people why do people make the decisions they do ultimately I went to school for psychology I minored in Communications um and then leaving College you know your girl had to work I had to sustain and and start working for myself so I didn’t go down that path at the time I took on what I thought were very random jobs um I did volunteer program management at nonprofits I I planned events and conferences in the hospitality space I um was an office manager HR liaison at a tech company so all of this felt very random until one day at that tech company um where I was running things like Employee Engagement programs I started to get more involved with the HR and recruiting teams the leader from the TA side came to me and said hey you have a really great pulse on what’s going on in the organization how can we take what you’re doing for the people internally and use that to attract talent and this is where the 2015 comes in um this is when I first heard of the concept of employer brand and realized oh my gosh none of this is random at all in fact my path has led me here purposefully and this is work that allows me to pull on all of my interests all of my expertise all of what I perceive to be my strengths in storytelling communicating that psychology aspect of it really being able to get into the writing and creativity so um yes I think the official and short answer is probably 2015 but the longer version is probably since the beginning since I started thinking about work so yeah yeah look look nobody nobody went to school for employer branding right like this is something you’re you’re born to do and the sum total of your experiences your education your passions comes to life through this work so I I love that and it’s you know it’s fascinating when I when I talk to folks who are leading employer branding it’s a very similar story right like some people will say oh I accidentally fell into it but most of us are like well no like it you can look back and and sort of count the steps or you know connect the dots between how everything you did led up to this discovery of employer branding as a concept or as a function and you being perfectly positioned to do it and then some body recognizing that the need for recruiters to either get on to Social and figure out how to do that or um you know how to uh shape or craft the narrative and perception of the organization as an employer of choice so um love the background love the the love story and the journey towards employer branding for you yeah I think one thing that we as practitioners share is that common experience right maybe we didn’t know this was a path for us or that was even an opportunity we can take on but because of that I think we’re so much better prepared to help people find their next opportunity because they’re probably in a similar place like oh I don’t know what my next opportunity is what is a right fit for me so I think we have such a unique ability and understanding to be able to connect those dots for others as well and why it’s such a perfect match for for people like us for people who are in the this space yeah 100% And and I look we we could apply these same talents to like selling product if we wanted to right but there’s a there’s a disconnect because we have a a very strong passion for people and that human connection and being able to tell those stories to then uh bridge the gap between aspiration and opportunity for folks when it comes to their next place of employment so you know it’s it is a burining uh function however um it’s growing rapidly which I’m I’m loving uh I’m seeing that and I’m loving that there’s more people getting into this work um so so so with that stated um you’re at a global Pharma company um you know it’s uh tons of moving pieces you’re bringing a brand to life but where where does employer branding sit within teada like which function sure So within teada we’re actually underneath the global HR umbrella um so I report into the head of ta who reports into the head of GTM Global Talent Management who reports into Global HR um we’re within that hrta house so to speak but of course we have a very close connection with a bunch of the different communication arms within the organization as well since since we’re such a large organization there are many different teams who who kind of hold that comms puzzle together um so we have a very broad network of collaborators and and kind of interdependent working groups so that’s a great segue because my follow-up question was how was your relationship with global comps this is a great question I would say blink twice if you need help Crystal blink twice probably not unsimilar to many other people I often like to say and this is not necessarily uh unique to te of course but I think that the comms and employer brand recruitment marketing uh World operates similar to a sibling Dynamic right like employer brander recruitment marketing can seem like the annoying little sister who’s who’s trying to steal the jeans out your closet and the comm’s team is the older sister trying to go out on on a date tonight you know we can be a pest but in our best moments when we’re really Jing and getting each other it can be amazing we create memories and content and experiences that will stand the test of time but there’s definitely a little bit of that push and pull so I think overall it’s okay I would say it’s probably better than other organizations I’ve been at there’s always work to be done and I think especially in the situation that both of our teams are in we’re kind of in these growth and evolving phases right now um I think that there will be an ebb and flow still because we’re growing we have to figure out how we’re growing as our own individual teams but also how we’re going to grow together so I think that treating that relationship truly as a living breathing thing and not getting too comfortable in whatever the current uh phase of that relationship is is important because it can always change dynamics of organizations always change people are always coming and going so I think cultivating it and working on that relationship as you would your own personal relationships is incredibly important um so I think that probably a little bit of extra context that you were looking for but all that to say hey day by day hey look this this is uh employer branding unfiltered so all context is valuable and I think that’s probably one of the best articulations of that relationship Dynamic of being like you know siblings uh you know and one being more Elder uh and exerting a bit more power Dynamic to the younger sibling trying to establish themselves and find their agency but also still needing and respecting and yes it’s it’s it’s a great great analogy um one that I’ve never used I’ve often compared employer brand and corporate brand to like siblings in the same household you know obviously when they you know step outside the house they’re representing the family but you go into their rooms they’re very different yeah yeah so I this this tracks I will add this to the Lexicon of analogies of siblings uh an employer brand but now that’s that’s really good and you’re right it’s not unique to any one company I think as long as there is a you know a function that has historically been the primary and sole mouthpiece for an organization and now has to deal with somebody who is not in comms or marketing coming with a voice a perspective a tone that is not the corporate brand I I get the the territorialism I get the you know the the wanting to control that um how how have you dealt with some of those challenges in the dynamic and you don’t have to get specific or whatever but more so what are you doing to encourage the leadership to get on the same page at the highest level so that it makes your job a bit easier yeah I think that’s a great question and the last point you made is how are we getting leadership I think that’s an incredibly important aspect of it is this kind of needs to come from all layers of of the team right because in our I don’t want to say lowest in one of our valleys um we we’ve had support at the top from you know leaders at that top level I think sometimes where that breakdown can happen is really at the middle right even when you think about organizational Dynamics as a whole independent of employer brand coms what have you when you look at organizations in general where a lot of that noise comes from is really the middle portion so it’s similar there so for me it’s not so much an aspect of leadership it’s an aspect of building up those relationships that trust that credibility for everything in between because we are both working on the the direction of our leaders who are aligned how we we shake that out in execution is really where the where the differences happen so how we build that trust how we build that relationship I look at it in a couple different ways so one is how do we lighten the load for that team how can we reduce the burden and how do we show ourselves as a value Val partner to them because if we can solve a problem for that team whether it be helping to divide up work so for example at the organization we’re at currently right now we really only have one social Channel um which is LinkedIn one channel about 300 different communicators within the organization that’s a lot of competition for one channel GR people are all 300 aren’t creating content within a day but it it’s a lot to manage so how can we support and mitigate and and make that process easier for the team that owns it so one thing that uh came up for example was oh we’re actually getting a lot of non-compliant requests through through social to be posted here and it you know it can be difficult to manage or deliver feedback or what have you so you know we approached them and said okay we hear that we don’t want to add to the noise and in fact we think that we can support you in this effort let us know like who it when you get employer brand content let us know when we can help manage that and we can help people get aligned to uh resources or have funnel people to us when appropriate so I think helping to lighten the load and and showing up and saying what can I do for you is an important piece the second piece that I really think is cocreation and what I mean is like end ofe planning midyear planning honestly whenever you can get someone’s calendar aligned to yours pick the time it it doesn’t matter at what point in the year but just sitting and saying hey we have very similar work as a matter of fact we probably have this same or very similar goals let’s share our plans what do we have in the docket what’s already in development how can we support are there resources that we can share um and what is it that we want to do that maybe we can’t do for whatever reason but if we bring together our efforts this can come to life so I think really bringing each other along in the planning of of the respective initiatives and efforts is important um yeah absolutely I mean oh please continue oh sorry the last thing I think is don’t be afraid to Advocate don’t be afraid to push back frankly um because I there’s been times where we’ve received push back on content or an idea or an initiative and I’m the type of person I’m not just going to take no for an answer I’m going to ask a couple follow-up questions and while maybe at the beginning that might seem like I’m being resistant or I’m being insubordinate the questions I’m asking are really to help us get at why why are we receiving this feedback how can we make sure this doesn’t happen again in the future because we do want to be a partner we don’t want to be a noise maker for you so I think asking those questions but furthermore helping the the the team member whoever the counterpart is understand why you’re asking the questions that you’re asking because sometimes especially you mention this word territorial if we already know that these types of uh relationships and collaborations can can have tension to them because there is this feeling of of being territorial just taking that extra step to explain and say this is where I’m coming from I think can help kind of thought that the iciness a little bit super practical tips um and really good perspective I think on the partnership Dynamic right it’s how can I reduce burden for you how can we co-create together and collaborate more closely and then you know also advocating for for what you’re doing and I I find that last piece to be one of the most important because it’s easy if if you’re junior right there’s a lot of folks who are just getting into employ employer branding right now and they don’t really know what they can Flex on yet and like just understanding that not only are you supposed to be here in this conversation or at this table but this is to further the business right this isn’t just me coming in with an agenda to screw up your comm’s plan like this is we are we are doing what’s required to help uh raise awareness for critical talent for the business to function and go on so that you have something to report to investors or to uh you know Wall Street or whomever organization that you’re communicating to on behalf of the company so it’s I think bringing that back into perspective that we are all on the same team we just happen to have very different mandates both important no one’s more important or less important but we have to figure out how to do this and but when you say you’re working off one channel with 300 communicators listen BR that’s wild a whole other wild a whole other story and I’ll take a I’ll take a guess at who who’s actually paying for LinkedIn by the way but we won’t mention any names I’m just saying typically we know who’s paying for it yes and this has actually come up as a point pretty recently of hey and this this is why LinkedIn is so interesting because LinkedIn yes it’s a place for corporate announce ments and all of that and I get where the the corpcom sees this as you know this is important for us but yeah LinkedIn at its core is a place where people go to find jobs and people and networking connection yes so one thing I will say this we’re we’re talking unfiltered that’s one thing or actually two things that I’m really fighting for in these next couple of months is getting at least least equal partnership on that channel because I feel that we should be treated as an admin as well because of what we just said so right now they’re the owners of that channel and we answer to them I think that if we can show up and continue to to Showcase this idea that we’re talking about of no we’re actually we’re uh confidence in this like you don’t have to go this alone we know that this is the area of your world that creates the most noise and the most um issues for you you don’t have to do that by yourself so that’s one of the big fights I’m fighting right now is how do we get kind of shared Partnership of this channel second piece is how do we get even one other channel of course Instagram selfishly as an elder Millennial Instagram is My Chosen drug social drug of chice yeah but I also think it’s great for employer brand like again when you have so many people fighting for the same channel that gets hard but also some of the content that that wouldn’t quote unquote fly on that channel because of brand guidelines brand whatever is so well suited for a channel like Instagram because it you are be able to be a little bit more fun just due to the nature of the platform so again I think it’s a it’s a work in progress we’re starting to you know get that that argument together and really leaning into the data and um understanding what are the pain points where’s the hesitancy here is it oh it’s because you know Pharma is notoriously um regulated regulated highly regulated highly regulated um and I know that those are some of the concerns what is our plan how are we prepared to manage that and and make sure that it’s actually not a concern at all um yeah so that was one of the first things I would do to your point around especially being in farm and biotech figure out what your fences are fast right like what can I talk about what can I absolutely not talk about and what do I have like blanket approval to talk about without having to go to legal for sign off or coms and once you establish those those key areas of don’t play and play all day at your leisure makes it a lot simpler and people can trust that okay look you’re G to see you know maybe evaluate the first 10 post make sure you’re comfortable and after that we’re we’re good legal you’re good comms you’re good cool we’ll share our content calendar so you know what’s coming up and we can even collaborate so as not to overlap on certain things and you know it it’s just finding that Rhythm but I think people have to first be very clear on what the business objectives are for your content yes what is the right and what’s the measurement of success of that content and then how does that support the broader business objectives that coms you’re working towards as well uh and then how do we do this in a way that’s compliant so if my agreement is I will never mention product awesome now I don’t have a level of compliance and Regulatory up my you know uh crawl about uh this this content right so now we can just focus on the people’s stories or we can focus on you know these really amazing um uh life exper lived experiences within the organization that otherwise don’t get told so anyway I’m off my Soap Box let want to stay on the soap box for yeah let’s go let’s go um so I will trade spots with you for a second in one of our previous conversations you mentioned something and I think this terminology is important you talked about it in terms of like a commercial kind of organization right like let’s say you are creating a product and you don’t have a go-to market strategy for it you would be fired so I think that’s the thing I think sometimes because there’s a lack of awareness around employer brand from other people in the organizations that we work with there sometimes is a lack of the same rigor or or perception that there is not the same rigor around employer brand as there is around these more established functions that have been around for much longer so that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t take it more seriously so really looking at all of this looking at your content strategies looking at all of your activities when you’re launching the brand really packaging it in that same way you would a a go-to market plan for a SAS product for a drug product for whatever because I think your your stakeholders will take you much more seriously they may still not understand the work to be quite Frank but at least you’re showing up and and saying it’s okay if you don’t understand it I do and that will be clear in how thoughtful it it my preparation is my plans are my metrics I’m having all these answers to questions you didn’t even know you were going to ask so I think that’s honestly a big piece of it it’s almost it’s not a exactly the same but it’s almost like fake it till you make it in a sense right like how do you really show up as a valued partner and that’s how they will value you as a partner just start showing up in that way as if you already are she’s out here dropping gems y’all this is it these are Keys these are keys I’m serious like you know there’s no Playbook a lot of times right nobody’s written the curriculum uh for for employer brand a lot of you live it and learn it and then figure out your your you know your wins from your past losses uh you know so very very um I think U important Keys you’re dropping here which actually again perfect segue so if we get into sort of the tactics and technicals of this right we think about the framing of you know first you get your EVP then your employer brand then you activate but in that EVP well go ahead go ahead I actually would not say first you get your EVP but my comment and maybe all right you so so the the framing the framing there is first and I it’s a good point um doing the research to understand who you are as a culture what are the experiences that we can then call out of that to create narratives uh from a messaging perspective aesthetic standpoint in the employer branding and then how do we bring that employer branding to the masses both internally and externally so that’s really the the the framing of that right so EVP is a result of research employer brand is a result of the re uh the EVP and then activation is the result of having a a message to tell and then of course your recruitment marketing tactics is how you distribute that distribute the opportunities and then bring people into um the apply process sorry for the redundance and I hope I didn’t mansplain anything that in that in that regard but I would love to hear just on the framework your your difference of thought there yeah so if I can bring it back to kind of how I approached my role here at teada yeah I think that starting with the EVP and starting with these big Ideas these big projects uh or honestly I think EVP is the word that people probably know the most so it’s the one that gets thrown around the most it’s the one that organizations say we need an EVP or in the case of my organization not only we need an EVP but HR needs an EVP manufacturing needs an EVP R&D needs an EVP and it’s like okay guys actually no no not what no no no seeing this and and just coming into this organiz ganization knowing that it it’s large it’s complex my first line of action before I even started dreaming big was hey recruiting Community ta Community what do you need today that you do not have what is it that you’re missing that you wish you had like let’s dream big for a second so I would really say first taking inventory and really letting the recruiter themselves not hrls not even heads of ta not whoever is at at kind of that that upper layer but the daytoday people who are on the phone with candidates I would highly recommend first talking with them getting a lay of the land from them what is it that you need identifying those quick wins because number one that will help you build that trust and help them to see like oh they actually care about making my job easier making my day today being a partner um so that’s a way that you can kind of get some quick collaborators and then because these are the people who are really going to be responsible for helping to push out and amplify Champion your work it is really helpful if you approach them first again this how can I help you attitude and then once you start doing the cool stuff the fun stuff the Innovative experimental things you already have people who are on your side because they’re thinking wow they were able to deliver this small thing that I’ve been asking for that I’ve been begging for for who knows how long whatever they do next I’m for it so that’s why I say even before you get to the EBP just kind of like take an inventory get a wish list from from your recruiting team and see what can we do immediately to to help kind of uh massage these these pain points a little bit and you’ll be much better off in the long run that’s fascinating um and it’s fascinating because it’s not a typical take right let me say this I’ve seen a lot of the former where you were talking about you know every leader in the in the business swears they need an EVP well let’s first establish what an EVP is and we’ll do the education around that and then we’ll talk about uh recruitment uh employer branding and what is that designed to do what is that uh what is the specific outcome you should be expecting from that and then we’ll talk about recruitment marketing which I think is what you’re probably saying we need we need more high quality candidates coming into the organization and being hired fine but but I love that you started with what do the recruiters need because from a recruitment marketing perspective they’re the ones who are out there needing to like you said talking with candidates day and day out what messages are they sharing what are those things that they’re highlighting that would attract or compel somebody that they’ve got in their funnel as a you know top talent that’s really hard to find what can they say that’s going to differentiate their organization from every other recruiter what are those materials they need for campuses or conferences or congresses and all of those things and I love that because far too often they become the downstream beneficiary of the employer brand and recruitment marketing work rather than the primary customer the only the only thing I would say about that also is um and I don’t know if this has been your experience but then when you start with them as in recruiters to find out what they need have you experience where it’s like okay well when can you get me that flyer or that social post graphic before you even develop the brand so yeah how do you that talking this is where I’m following your path absolutely so in fact the I approached it in this way because of exactly what you’re saying sure in my in my mind um in my understanding I guess employer brand or brand Marketing in general is a longer game it takes more time there’s research it it a long-term play recruitment marketing is more of the I wouldn’t necessarily call it a quick win but it’s turned out more it’s more frequent more volume of of things perhaps so how do you especially if you don’t have an EVP you’re refreshing an EVP you need these materials regardless yesterday and people don’t have like coming into the organization saying okay cool I’m going to do an EVP best case scenario it’ll take minimum 6 months all the recruiters are going to look at you like okay well I’m still going to be doing whatever I’m doing anyway so I would urge this MH it is okay if you don’t necessarily have your EVP unlock because I forget where I saw this maybe it was Ben Phillips or or someone else some other um thought leader on LinkedIn who mentioned the EVP or your brand isn’t about s at all actually it’s about revealing so you can deliver quick wins to your ta Community without having this defined look and feel and messaging what I would say is lean into what already exists because there are things that you can Surface and that you can put together for your recruiters that can still be brand compliant that still achieve the same end without having this robust developed whole whole brand book together and it’s it’s ways to say okay how can we connect people to the resources the information that they’re looking for and start there just give that team something maybe it’s okay I’m pulling together an FAQ or I’m pulling together um a hashtag bank or I’m pulling together resources for you that already exist but maybe you didn’t know existed or they’re in different places so that’s kind of what I’m saying you don’t have to go full force but what’s that mvp the minimum valuable product that you can provide today because they’re going to be out there communicating whatever regardless so what is the harm and giving them something maybe it’s a not a fully baked like I said design but at least they have the information right at least you’re getting them accurate information um so that’s how I would say you can approach that I’m also a fan of iteration and testing so it’s not horrible while you’re out doing your EVP you have this active testing going on with your recruiters where okay cool we have a couple messages we have a couple designs here again they’re brand compliant maybe they’re not our renewed brand but they’re brand compliant lean into your corporate guidelines for this one folks until you have the other stuff outlined but um provide that to them and I lost my I lost my thought here it it’s so good it’s so good too look you you’re you’re you’re nailing it and and I think getting the engine going yes gives gives you some some really good cache with ke audience no it’s it’s a great point because then got me back on track go ahead go ahead pick up from there yeah iterating and testing so that way you have some things out in the market that as you’re building your EVP you’re understanding what’s already resonating for these people and then you could activate that EVP you can activate that brand a little bit more quickly because you have data around the content itself and once you have the kind of the Finesse ready right you have that look you have the the specific words plop all of that into to this structure but I don’t think it has to be an either or I don’t think you need to hurry up and wait you can do both bars um and and and I think that’s that is critical because I think if you try to take it from that that F uh linear process of research brand creative activation you’re going to miss to your point months of what can we do now to to um Empower and Bolden our recruiters to at least at least get them get them primed for when the Brand’s ready you’ve already got the relationship you’ve delivered some value up front for them they’re they’re itching they’re chomping at the bit to get the finalized so you already got your your first ambassadors honestly um so I love that you’re starting there I I wonder um and we can go you know so many different directions in this and I wanted to get into like you know your approach to research and but but I I want to I want to get into something a bit Med year like um you know one of the biggest challenges I I find for employer brand leaders is getting their leadership to understand the differences in those very key components of the brand work right so that research and that EVP is going to hold a mirror up to your executive leadership and say this is who you are I know who you think you are but based on all the research and the qualitative and the quantitative that we’ve done done to understand from the lens and the lived experiences of our employees this is who they say our culture is you might not like it you might have ideas on what aspirational thinking we should be putting into this brand messaging but just take this for what it is and then you have the brand itself right so then you’ve got the creative messages that come out of it the Aesthetics the photo shoots that get done the videos and all those cool things but then now you have to tell the world about it so what have you done to tell to take your leadership through this process of saying here’s here are the key components and what I’m working on what you’re investing in here’s what you should expect and here’s what you shouldn’t expect from each of these phases right because I know that’s a struggle uh and then you have to keep re-educating but what what has been your approach to make sure that not only are you bringing them along but that they can be confident and advocating for this work when you’re not in the room mhm that’s a great question and I think it goes back to that GT M strategy right like really preparing a a robust kind of vision for them GTM for the listeners again is Global Talent Management which go to market go to oh see see look this is why we clarify on acronyms folks because there’s a lot of AC so I’m gonna bring it back to that moment for a second because I will tell you this I um developed like our Master brand Bible brand guide whatever Playbook whatever you want to call it and I’ve actually kind of developed it in a Choose Your Own Adventure type of way I’ve aligned it to like our leadership behaviors and and some of the the stuff internally that matters most to us but then I have a Choose Your Own Adventure so anybody who’s picking up this document or anybody who’s reading this document it says hey if you’re an executive here’s your path if you’re an advocate or an ambass here’s your path and if you’re an HR leader or whomever ta here’s your path so bringing that up to say you don’t always communicate the same things to every stakeholder and what matters to the executive team and what matters to leadership is going to vary greatly from someone who’s on the ground as evidenced by exactly what you said often times Executives have a certain perception or a certain view or vision of their organization that there’s naturally going to be some differences than the people who are working on the ground it it just is what it is um so I think that’s part of it making sure that you’re you’re not oversharing you’re not unders sharing but you’re you’re sharing the gold elocks information with them and at the executive level it’s hey here’s what we’re doing here’s the impact we’re hoping it has here’s how we’re going to measure that and and really use as much data as you can and as much as you can show like let’s say you’re in development as much as you can show this is an example of the thing that you can expect here’s how you measure the success of it because I think um what comes up often and what you and I have spoken about before was you can’t judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree you cannot you cannot uh measure the SU ESS of one tactic the same way as others if that’s not what it’s meant to do so showing examples but also showing this is the purpose of this and here’s how we’re going to measure that that so really connecting those dots at a high level for them because often times the executives they don’t necessarily have time you have to you have to give them the elevator pitch here’s here’s the latest and greatest the headlines um and then doing the same with these other categories but the other piece like you said bringing them along on the journey so in our process when we were establishing the EVP we did uh leadership interviews first we grabbed time with everybody um did individual interviews and just spoke with them about their experience as an employee yes we’ll get to the leadership piece but we want to hear from you about your experience as an employee what brought you to teada what were your hesitations about teada so really helping them get into that mindset too I think helps them to see and maybe connect to what this work really means and and it’s purpose if you talk to them and bring them along in that way at least at the start um and and checking in at the key Milestone pieces absolutely absolutely I I I love the approach uh and I think that there’s uh a lot of value in putting leaders back into a candidate seat for a moment CU far too often it’s been a while for them right that they’ve had to think like a job Seeker um so so that’s that’s fantastic one of the other things and I and I I really wanted to get your thoughts on this especially as you’re gearing up for New Brand launch and all these things that you’re working on but one of the I think one of the most overlooked keys of success or factors of success for any employer brand launch is having the right infrastructure to support it once it’s out there right so you have to have a a great team uh so so talk to me about how you’ve assembled sort of the Marvel superhero uh Squad as it is a journey work in progress It’s a journey I think we’re there but it’s a journey it’s something that I would spend my time outside of work thinking about and just W it would be I would be watching a series on Netflix or or whatever and it would just pop into my mind and I would have aha moments about oh this makes sense or this is how we should structure the team and it’s gone through iterations and with every step we were getting closer and closer so again at teada we’re a pretty large organization so how I build out the team here would be very different than I would at at another organization but at teada for some context again Global organization large company the other another Factor here to to take into account is we are decentralized so what that means is we our functions so to speak kind of operate as their own Independent Business units so there’s some level of autonomy and flexibility at that lower level so for us the challenge is how do we build up a team that will make people feel good that they are getting the support that they need but also that we’re uniting behind the same story that will help us get recognized because you in order to build a brand at least the way I’ve been communicating it you want that brand to be undeniably identifiable and how do you do that if you have all these splinters in your storytelling in your imagery in your what have you so kind of bring people Along on that journey and and helping them understand this United team is actually going to serve us better but how do we make sure that they feel they’re getting the service that they’re looking for so I wanted to structure our team like an agency I wanted a mix of subject matter experts but also people like account managers who are really responsible for cultivating those relationships a goto Point person that can strategize with you about those those about your your needs and your efforts so when I think about the subject matter experts I’m looking at those folks kind of as our brand marketing they’re really responsible for that overarching message the Evergreen type of content keeping um the EVP and the the employer brand on and running all the time then we have our account managers who are serving the business as strategists and and focusing on that recruitment Market marketing specifically so they’re helping you to strategize on those initiatives and um working through that and then they’ll go back to the appropriate like let’s say we have the digital marketing manager and it’s hey we have a build coming up what how do what content do we need on the career site and let me go talk with our content marketing manager what kind of stories do we want to be telling what is important here so having that go-to person with the support of of kind of the subject matter experts in the back um but then also having another layer because you don’t want all strategists right because that’s a lot of cooks in the kitchen you have a ton of strategists on the the subject matter expert side and then you have strategists on the account management side who’s doing the work now you need kind of a layer of people who’s who are just doing like the recruitment marketing specialist recruitment marketing manager they’re responsible for the daytoday execution so that’s kind of how I’m looking at my team is is the three layers we have the the brand experts then you have the relationship Builders and then you have the doers the tacticians yeah yes and I’m fortunate enough that I have the opportunity to build a team of this size at teada and it’s not lost on me because in many roles in the employer brand space you’re often the one and only maybe you have a team that could fit on one hand um so it will look very different from organization to organization but when you have the luxury to do it I think making sure however that shapes out that you’re covering those different uh pieces of the pie um the support the strategy and and the relationship and and and these are these are spread out globally or you said it’s decentralized so is yeah is this sort of Hub and spoke mod model or is this you have people key people in different you know regions okay so our um subject matter experts or the brand kind of marketers they’re Global then we have the account managers or the brand leads who are aligned by regions um that made the most sense to me because we have the business units we have um around eight and we just don’t have the headcount to to assign uh uh a brand partner to every business unit so for me it’s like where are those nuances actually are they at the business unit level or are they at that Regional level and for me I figured we would have more nuances at that Regional level because ultimately a campaign the structure of it while the messaging and and the placement may change from business unit to business unit that’s not changing too terribly much we know you need to hide people so that that process and that kind of templatized approach will pretty much kind of look the same what will be different is at that local level like how we promote or amplify in the US is going to look totally different than it does in China than it does in India so we need those experts more at the local level versus the business unit level because the the TA team and our partners will tell us the needs at that business unit level we apply the process to it now we just need someone with that understanding of like the cultural nuances of course of course yep and that then gives you a good base foundation for support once you’ve launched and it’s not just an email right it’s yes it’s if it’s activation at Country level or Regional level you’ve got people in place which is a perfect segue yet again you like the Perfection of of Segways this is is great um the activation part which I I believe personally is the most fun part of the brand uh strategy um how do you bring the brand to life right you’ve got all this work done on the creative the messaging you’ve trained or you’ve educated you’ve done your road shows but now it’s time to go right what is your philosophy around brand launches activations and ways that not only bring it to life but give people energy to want to support and amplify it so this is my favorite part of the work and I think part of it is because of my background in events I really want it to feel like a moment like you had to be there for this era or this time in the company do you remember when type of thing I love that so really making it sticky and how do you do that it’s not a one-time thing as you it’s certainly not just an email how do you infuse this into every Avenue possible and how do you get people excited about it and how do you kind of create maybe some mystery too some curiosity is probably the better word yeah you really want to create a buildup and I think about honestly the the example like I I think about the most in this work is fire Festival because they built up oh my God that was such a great buildup such a great build around it how do you build that same level of buildup with your employer brand of course not that not the ex level of execution but that buildup and and why what I think they did so well was that Curiosity you knew something was coming you didn’t quite know what but you knew it was going to be a big a big flap or a big is up to you um but it was going to be something big so how we’re looking at this now is okay how do we lean into the partners and going off of this idea that the employer brand activation a couple things a couple notes I want to call out here number one is just as much for the employees as it is for external I firmly believe that because your employees are champions of your work and you could create the best campaign the best messages the coolest Concepts but if people inside your organization do not care then it does not matter so you want to make sure that your internal people care about it too that’s number one number two and here’s where you can kind of get at that territorial aspect as well um is really communicating that the brand the activation whatever you’re doing is not about creating something entirely new it truly is not really it is about connecting your employees and your Workforce back to all of the reasons why they came to this organization in the first place it’s about reconnecting to them to the resources that we have developed for them across the organization it’s about reins stilling that Pride so I think messaging that and leaning into things that already exist will make your life a lot easier it will curry a lot of favor with your stakeholders and it will just help get visibility because you’re not creating something new and and creating a new task a new chore out some outside of somebody’s day job so identifying initiatives identifying Landmark events at your organization that you can tag into start dropping Easter eggs start having a booth or something at these events about the employer brand throw a QR code somewhere people I’m I will scan a QR code out in the wild anytime I see one because I’m nosy you have to capitalize on that like think how how can you catch people where they’re already going to be and the same way you primed your recruiters prime your your employees as well prime your external people start dropping these little Easter eggs and then build up to ideally a landmark event of your own that’s about celebrating the employer brand that’s about celebrating the people ultimately um and I know we’re running a little bit long on time here but ultimately always bring it back to the employees always bring it back to the work that’s already been done because that’s how you’re going to get support to pull off something of this scale You Can Be Frugal with your budget in that way if you’re not creating something that new um and you’re also helping to amplify other people’s work so look that’s kind of what I would focus on gold this is gold like the moment creating a moment like the the moment that if you missed it you’re going to feel like [ __ ] for not being a part of it like yes that and I can’t tell you how many companies and I’m sure it’s the same for you where you’ve joined and they’re like oh man you should have been here when you know they used to have these beer fests or you know or you know the some of the wild stories you hear about you know travel and and whatever right but that that makes you it’s endearing like damn I’m part of a company that at one point was like this but if you can create those moments now and and help people fall in love again and I and I love that you said that right rekindle that passion through that brand work that is the opportunity we get exactly and I think a couple things on that note like it’s the relationship right that’s really what we’re cultivating is that relationship with candidates relationship with employees and the longer you’re with somebody whether it’s a friend a a romantic partner the more energy and time you have to invest into it and it’s the same thing with an employer brand you have to constantly bring people back to this is who we are we’re a team we do this together and this is why um so that’s part of it other piece I would say around activation creating these moments and um bringing those people together is making sure that you can scale that you don’t need to dream too big because again at least in in my situation I’m sure others um where you have uh Global offices you may have hubs and then you have smaller offices it’s important not to leave out those smaller offices so think about even if you have this huge event in your headquarters how do you scale that what is what’s an activation in a box look like how can you make bringing it back to the MVP minimum viable product how can you showcase this in in its rawest simplest form um I know you and I kind of got into this idea of like a brand con for for an employer brand of a company um and I I was really excited about that and I started to think more about these smaller offices who may not have the ability to do that how do you do that at scale so I was thinking about this idea of a brand conference well every office has conf conference rooms maybe you take two or a conference room per pillar transform that conference room into an experience make it immersive make it instagrammable and you could do that just by printing a couple different things you know it really thinking about even if it’s the biggest idea what does that look like as a pebble you know I love it this is look y’all are getting like premium guidance right now take this run with it be great and look I know I could talk to you for hours uh as as we as we have done before but but I will uh I will ask you in this segment uh that we ask all of our guests um to participate in and it’s answer a question leave a question so yes uh I’m going to provide a question to you that came from our last guest and then after your answer you can leave a question for our next guest but the question that was left was um what are you going to do to ensure that this space is more accessible for people of color right okay yes so that employer brand context of you know it’s pretty homogeneous let’s just say and it’s changing but making this more appealing even awareness around this space what what what are you what are you doing in this space to to make this more of a a welcoming space [Music] mhm that’s a really great question and when you kind of drop the seed for me of what the question would be before the recording I thought this was going to go in a different direction um so this is a really good one what am I doing in this space um I think don’t gatekeep you cannot gatekeep when it comes to Dei and accessibility I think that’s a big thing um don’t gatekeep I network with people like reach out and and connect with others or even connect with other storytellers maybe they’re not in the employer brand space but you see someone who has uh skills like for example I know in ta a Hot Topic right now is skills-based hiring maybe connect with other people who are in employer brand adjacent roles and uh tell them a little bit about the good word of the employer brand today like you know hey I think you’re almost put on your recruiter hat just reach out to people hey I see you’re doing great work like I’d love to chitchat with you talk shop like engage in that conversation I think um and be honest be honest about like hey employer brand is great we know that uh we want to be telling those stories of our underrepresented people and these organizations and who is better to help tell those stories than someone who shares that same identity um and finally I think just just being real about the challenges um and what you’re facing in me even though I I don’t present as a person of color I I am a proud Latina and it’s something that I feel passionate about and is a core piece of me so connecting with others in my space connecting with our Dei leaders and just making sure that that aspect is a thread through all of the work that we do is important um and being authentic about it don’t be performative don’t just tell Dei stories in pride month don’t just tell black history or or stories of your black employees during Black History Month really finding that intersectionality and I think if the work that you are doing in your area represents the very broad variety of people that there are in workspaces and and in communities people who are a part of those communities will recognize that and I always say this anytime I talk with someone about a campaign or or an awareness month or a day of note or whatever it is is people from underrepresented communities are too well-versed and picking up on the BS they know when they’re being pandered to they know when that photo of someone in a wheelchair is not someone who is actually uh disabled um so cut cut the you know and be real cut the [ __ ] we’re filtered you can speak freely will appreciate you being real over you trying to tell them the sky is green when it’s really blue and this is something I feel strongly about too I’m going to give you a hot take actually I’m here for the hot taks let’s go um so some people when we think about content or whatever career site let’s use career site okay I think that because of the emphasis that’s been placed on Dei over the past couple years which I think is important and is necessary because of this emphasis though there’s a lot of uh visibility and attention being given to imagery on things like career sites and sometimes we’ll get comments around we need more pictures of X kind of people there you go let’s do it back on that not to say no we’re not GNA do that we have to but I always push back and say yes but let’s not overdo it because we don’t want to oversell what’s going on here either if we’re putting pictures of uh the United Nations all over our career site but you come here and there’s actually only maybe two or three people people who don’t look like everyone else people are going to be upset so yes showcase those faces but not to an extent where you’re then selling a a house of cards to them so yes make sure you’re being thoughtful of of representation in your photos but don’t paint a picture that is not truly representative of your organization because that’s how you lose people and that’s how you get people upset right away they’re coming into an organization and probably into a situation that they face time and time again what will be refreshing for for this community what is refreshing for me is if you’re just like hey this is what it is here but we care about this we’re aware of it and and this is why this is important I take that much more seriously and and place it in a higher regard than oh cool I see a bunch of brown people on your career site that doesn’t mean anything to me look this we I often say make sure your marketing matches reality yes yes don’t overell a false narrative yes yeah well it ends up hurting your brand because people are going to get there have an experience that doesn’t match what you sold them and then they’re going to tell everybody in their Network and their communities don’t go there it’s not real so now whatever you’ve invested in this brand perception that you thought was great because it was inclusive on the surface but didn’t match reality you’ve just worked against your investment in branding so great great perspective and thank you for your answer uh by the way folks she had no prior knowledge of the question but she was she understood the assignment this was great uh so so chrysta I I will only ask you then to leave a question for our next guest [Music] mm okay my question is going to be around Ai and I just because it’s a Hot Topic and um we’re seeing it kind of penetrate the space more and more I would say I’m trying to be profound here and and profound on the spot a question that um is as good as the one that you gave me um so I would say what are you what aspects of your job are you afraid of losing with a AI because I saw something great question you know when AI when the AI uh Tupac record started coming out and the AI Drake record started coming out they’re for Drake for more reasons than one maybe rest in peace yes but these these records like it brought up the idea of AI is great I want it to do things like my taxes my math problems the tasks that I don’t want to do I don’t want AI to take away the things that I’m trying to create more time for by leveraging AI so I’m just very curious like what are those aspects of your job that you’re just like man I I I do use AI for this every day but I actually hate myself for using AI for this every day that is a fantastic question um and I think that is both profound and should should challenge the uh challenge the next guest so what aspect of AI are you afraid of replacing your job do I have that right pretty much pretty much love it well that is going to be that is going to set up our our next guest for an awesome question and uh just as much as our last guest did for you crystal I can’t thank you enough for this time this this honesty this unfiltered unvarnished excellence and expertise that you’ve shared with us to today and you are welcome back to employer branding unfiltered anytime I hope to have you back again um so thank you thank you for being you be amazing and be safe out there yes thank you John I cannot wait until we have another discussion this has been such a great way to end my week and I hope for everyone else too I will be tuning in to the next episode so really appreciate you awesome thanks again [Music]