Employer Branding Unfiltered: S2 Ep.2 – Paige Elliott

And I just remember marketing CCing a whole bunch of people in these emails like who is doing this? Like who is this person and who’s doing this? And you’re not on my marketing team. Who’s Paige Elliot? That’s literally how it got trickled down to me. And um I’m like oh my goodness I’m about to get fired. I’m like three months in, you know, and um and so that was my first interaction with marketing. Like I was disrupting the system, but I was getting >> the numbers were great. The numbers were solid. [Music] [Music] All right, everybody. Uh we are uh back with another episode of Employer Branding Unfiltered. And I am excited about this one. We we have we’ve done uh some magician level coordination to make this calendar work. And I’m grateful because uh Paige has been uh Simone Biles level flexible to to make this happen. And I’m I’m excited for this conversation, y’all. So, um I I want to welcome a a fellow fellow employer, brand, practitioner, uh speaker, phenom, mom. Uh probably should have put that first. Uh but brilliant mind in this space with out of the box ideas and advancing uh the work that we do daily, Miss Paige Elliot. >> Wow. Thank you for that introduction. I appreciate that. >> Of course. Of course. really um comparing me to Simone Biles and my flexibility. I mean, that’s pretty elite. >> Listen, listen. I I do have an extra revenue stream where I will follow you and make that introduction anytime, anywhere you need me to any stage. >> I’mma call you. >> Right on. All right. All right. Well, welcome to the show. Um this is uh this is an exciting time on many different levels. So, there’s a a lot to cover in in in the world of employer brand. I’ll relegate it to employer brand because >> the world would be too much. >> Um, but let’s let’s start out just for the people that don’t know you because they’ve been living under rocks. >> Tell them who you are and where should they know you from. >> Oh, okay. Okay. Well, Paige Elliott. I um live in Phoenix, Arizona, but I am born and raised in Pennsylvania. And u my background is really around um I went to school for broadcast journalism actually. So, >> should have been may end up one day on somebody’s TV. Okay. Because I I feel like you can’t put me in a box. So, I may be somewhere on somebody’s show. Um, but I worked in uh production, was a PA, um, went into the public relations space, did PR for professional athletes, entrepreneurs, small businesses, um, and learned and fell in love really with the storytelling and positioning um, and PR. And from there, I was offered an opportunity about 8 years ago now, which is crazy. Um, at an organization who never had employer branding. In fact, they didn’t call it employer branding. It might have been called um like recruitment media or branding or something. They didn’t know what to call it cuz who are, you know, who were we at that time? Um, but they were looking for somebody to come in and really help brand the company inside out. So, I came in. I was the only one at the organization. and they were um they had 120,000 employees. It was a very big um company and there was one little person in uh Arizona. They were looking to do such a thing and um but really spent 5 years at that organization like trying to figure out what it was called and what we were doing and um anyway landed into this employer brand space and met a lot of um random individuals online who were doing some job that was similar like me uh that we called employer branding. And then um then I I fell into another organization that had um fast forward that had an employer brand team or whatnot. So I could talk a lot about that 8 years of what I’ve seen in employer branding, how we got here, what I’ve experienced, you know, persuading people, the importance of it and now the desperate need of people needing you, you know, they the high demand of employer branding now. So lots to share, lots to talk about, but >> that’s me >> for sure. Look, you you’ve been in it long enough to go from obscure to in demand. And that’s right. And that’s a good feeling. >> They didn’t want me. Now I’m hot. >> Now they all on me. Listen, Mike Jones. >> So So that’s an interesting. So that answers actually that’s a great segue into the question of when did you first fall in love with employer brand? Yeah, I think I fell in love with the idea of the going into that organization at the time and trying like I’m an entrepreneur at heart, so trying to figure out like what is this and build build a team and build um a way to tell people’s stories. I remember when I went to um the interview at the organization, it was a financial company and online it was very um white male dominated if I’m, you know, being honest on the website and >> no, >> you know what I mean? >> You know, and so I’m like, okay, I was going to turn the job down >> um because I was like I didn’t see anyone that looked like me, right? And so I’m just go into this interview and just see what it is about. But when I went into the office, it was so diverse, like so diverse. Hispanics, Asians, African-Americans, like walking in and out the office while I’m waiting in the lobby. And so at that point, there was a story to tell and I knew that. Um, and I just felt like the organization didn’t know how to tell it e externally. And so that’s when I kind of like was really interested in the role and in developing what this is now, employer branding. >> Whoa. So that’s that’s fascinating. um a couple levels, >> right? Right? Because I mean, first of all, if I think that says a lot about the importance of showcasing the the diverse communities within your company because from folks that are coming from historically underestimated communities, we’re looking for the cues of one, am I safe here >> and two, is there opportunity up beyond just my peer group level or uh you know, my leadership, but all the way to the top. how far can I go? >> And if we’re not seeing those cues, that can influence our desire to even hit the apply button. So, I think that’s huge. And then getting in, seeing the culture firsthand and saying, “Oh, oh snap, there’s a whole story that’s not being told here.” >> Yeah. >> And you have like cart blanching an open canvas to paint it. >> Paint it out. And it was a beautiful story to tell. Once you get through >> who you are, why you’re important, who owns what, what, you know, all the all the mechanics like get into trying to do all that there, but um that’s another story. But you know, >> that’s therapy. That’s what therapy is for. >> It is. It is. Um but it was a fun story to tell. And um once people start, you know, you start making some noise in it, it’s like, okay, what’s what is this? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that’s that’s kind of how it started to evolve. >> So, so I love that. Um, and I think that there’s uh a lot to be said in terms of approach, right? So, not everybody approaches EB the same way, >> nor should they. I think there’s some basics, right, that that we all sort of follow follow the script because it’s just good good script. But then there’s the I heard you say entrepreneur, which I think you have to be in order to to do this well, right? like um that that entrepreneurial spirit or entrepreneurial spirit cuz to your point you you know the the wheeling and dealing the negotiating the you know um compromise and collaboration all of those things um and there’s no road map for it. So what would you say has become like your signature uh in this space? Like what are you known for when you get into these companies like here’s what I’m here’s what I do. Yeah. No, for me it’s it’s I’m really big on building a brand from the inside out. So, I’m just going to tell a really good story. I’m going to like find your people who have something to say and and because the people at the end of the day are um what makes a the company’s culture who they are what they are and whatnot. So, um I’m going to come in. And I’m going to I think it’s the journalism back, you know, my background or the PR positioning, but I’m going to find that story and I’m going to tell um and and make sure that people are seen and heard and bring that to life. Um and at the end of the day, that is what’s going to help um when it comes to recruiting or you know, positioning us in a in a certain way or um any campaigns that, you know, we’re doing. It’s going to allow us to reach the right audience by that story. So, I definitely will say just that authenticity that I’m going to bring to every room and the stories that I’m able to help tell and build. I think there’s a there’s a lot in there. >> 100%. Um and I and I love that the inside out. It’s so when when we so I talk to a lot of um TA leaders, >> um HR leaders who who are coming to us saying, “Hey, we need an EVP.” >> But what they really mean is they need an employer brand. >> Or sometimes they’re like, “Well, they’re saying EVP” but thinking recruitment, marketing. >> What is which one? Which one do you right? So, so how do you explain that to uh an executive leader who’s saying, you know, Paige, we brought you in here cuz we need an EVP. >> How do you walk them through the pro like the educational part of that, right? Like how have you helped leaders better understand this work so that they know what they signed up for >> and what they should expect? >> Yeah. Know that’s good because I didn’t know what it was called when I started, right? Like I didn’t know what it was I’m looking for. All I knew is that I had campaigns to do with social media to get out and I didn’t know what I was saying, >> right? What what you know who who are we? I was trying to get you know figure that piece out. So I remember kind of like I’m like the messaging is different everywhere. You know it’s like over here we’re calling we’re saying we’re this over here we have this branding like who are we? So I remember um actually speaking to an agency my this is like my second year into employer branding and and saying like I don’t know what this is and that’s where the EVP was introduced to me as like the messaging like really get into the root of not who the the top says you are not who you want to be seen for but what do the people say about you and who you are as an organization and then how can we help bring that to life create the messaging you know so that you you are able to speak from within employ how the employees feel about the organization. So um I would start by by saying it’s the employees perception you know of the organization. What what value do they feel that uh you bring um and what um and what do you do for them and how you know and how they see you or whatever. and then being able to bring that to life within your organization is where the EVP is stands on and is foundational on and using that to then recruit you know the types of um individuals that you’re looking for for your organization the messaging the guides the tool you know all the things the branding all the things will come from that but it’s really that foundational work um that is the true essence and the foundation of the EVP >> this is this is mastery level explanation folks this is it the EV EVP is the foundation. It’s that’s what you build the brand on, right? >> It’s the root. And it’s literally the it’s it’s the same thing. Um I just had a conversation yesterday talking about um like personal branding or in PR or in all these streams. So many individuals are trying to just sell something, brand something, recruit, you know, but it’s like if you don’t know who you are first, like >> you’re missing the mark. What are we saying? What are we doing? like we need to get to the the essence of the identity first and so I think that’s major. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think there’s um you know I I remember my first big uh my first foray into uh employer brand came much like yours through social uh recruitment marketing and uh you know global organization wanting to bring their recruiters into the social media age and social recruitment age and uh you know so I’m dating myself how far back that goes but >> um but then the whole notion of oh but we need an employer brand and I’m saying well yeah because otherwise what story are your recruiters telling >> right >> and then how do you get that well yes you need to know what the live daily lived experience of employees that actually shapes the culture >> uh what that is and then articulate that in a way that’s visually and narratively accurate but also compelling right and appealing >> accurate is key and let me Start by saying that because the worst thing you want to do is tell a story that does not align and that is not true to your organization because people feel that. You know, people are going to feel it and you can mess up your attrition be and people will not feel like they belong and all the things when you’re telling a false story. So that that’s like a big piece of it a lot of people don’t realize until you know down the road. But it’s like you cannot like that’s why the top can’t say what an organization is or um you know someone in marketing can’t say what an organization is like you have to talk to the people at the end of the day. >> Oh man. So that’s a great segue. Uh so I’ve seen it a few times where somebody comes and said, “Hey, we need uh we need to do an employer brand.” And they knew what the employer brand was. Okay, cool. our our CEO thinks our tagline should be X, Y, and Z. Is >> that right? >> And we’re like, huh, >> well, okay. Well, sure. Let’s let’s let’s let’s validate that. What research was done to >> to to arrive there? Oh, no, no, no. That’s just what they think it should be. I mean, that’s okay. What What are your thoughts on that? That approach, >> John. John, >> am I speaking your life right now? How long did it take for you to tell to to persuade them is my question there was actually research that needed to be done or there there was actually you know a process here or there was an investment that needed to be made um because I know you you done hit a nerve with that one. Um, but no, I think that’s what they’re used to though, especially if you if you come from, you know, if you’ve been in corporate for a while or or marketing, you know, that you feel like you you’re telling them uh what you want to put out. But >> yeah, no, I would just you have to show data at the end of the day. That’s what I really learned is you had to get down to the facts and um you know, okay, well, what are the issues? Are is there a nutrition issue? Are you having a problem recruiting certain roles? let’s see, you know, get get to the recruiting data when it comes to um, you know, if it’s a recruiting issue or is it a mis messaging issue or, you know, getting to the root of that. And I I’ve learned over time um at my previous company that I had to like really show the value and employer branding and why it was important through the data. >> At the end of the day, >> I I I completely agree. It’s it has to be data driven, sure, and insights backed uh or data backed and insights driven. But the challenge is um especially when an executive thinks their culture is one thing and and I can understand why from a specific level or high level in the organization they have a very different experience with the organization but when you get down to like the front lines or even in the middle management level middle layers that experience is vastly different than somebody in the seauite. >> Yeah. So when we talk about the persuasion and and the you know and the getting them to recognize that um you can’t dictate to your employees what the culture is right and and honestly you already have an employer brand. >> The question is are you a steward of it? Do are are you driving it or are you just sort of >> allowing it to happen thinking that it’s something that it’s not? Um, and I love what you said, if you don’t go out there with an accurate story, you are essentially uh guaranteeing you’re going to drive your attrition numbers up >> 100%. >> And then work against the brand, whatever brand that you have, because oh, when people don’t have a great experience at a company, they don’t just keep it to themselves. >> Oh, they’re going to tell a friend and tell a friend who’s >> and tell a friend and tell a friend >> and don’t let them start to get the comment. And you know how um you know how you know Yelp or what you know leaving Google reviews and stuff like they’re going to get on your glass door pages and they’re going to get on um your yeah your review sites and say how they feel. >> Oh and they they go hard on LinkedIn these days too. Way more open than before like >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So listen, you you mentioned marketing >> and I was going to get to marketing >> uh because I think every look every every employer brand practitioner it if you haven’t had your runin with marketing or comms then you haven’t done it right. Right. So, so tell me what’s your relationship with comms and and then followup how have you fostered a great collaborative relationship with comms or marketing? >> Yeah. So, I’ll start with my beginning of employer branding and say that in the beginning it was like I don’t know if you can see you can’t if you can’t see me what I’m doing is I’m crashing my fist but the button heads >> button heads right. >> Yeah. But what I’ll say is I just remember there was um I was putting out content. I was putting out stories. I was just like in Arizona in my own world just putting stuff out and things were going on social and the engagement was crazy, you know, like a lot like the social media posts were were getting high engagement. People were commenting but it was different than what we’ve put out before. And I just remember marketing CCing a whole bunch of people in these emails like who is doing this? Like who is this person and who’s doing this? And you’re not on my marketing team. Who’s Paige Elliot? That’s literally how it got trickled down to me. And um I’m like, “Oh my goodness, I’m about to get fired.” I’m like three months in, you know, and um and so that was my first interaction with marketing. Like I was disrupting the system, but I was getting >> the numbers were great. The numbers were solid >> and so um that was the conversation. So I would definitely say like in the beginning it was like um hard. Who owns LinkedIn? That’s every EB person’s uh conversation. um do you have to go do I have to go through you or do you have to go through me? Do we share the channel? Um so it was a lot of a lot of that. Um honestly I probably fought with that my like literally probably four years like um because the financial institutions they they have their systems right and red tape and you got to go through a lot of um extra layers. So I’ve definitely learned to like make my way um in EB with that organization. However, it was a 360 um experience for me when I went to my new organization because I came to um my new company and they had an EB team. They had the resources. They’ve already had, you know, things established and marketing was already aware of the EB team. So, they already had a way of working. So, I didn’t have to preach and educate and do all the things to try to persuade of why I was important. It was now just nurturing that that relationship. So today, um, I would say that I have a good relationship with marketing. If anything, they’re super supportive of the work that we’re doing. Um, however, I won’t say, you know, it’s not always, you know, um, 100%. There are sometimes where it’s like, you know, who should do what or or what not, but we have like monthly calls, you know, we have a open communication when there are events. We are learning to collaborate in certain spaces. Um, so you know, they’re building templates for us and we’re we’re supporting resources and so it’s a lot better. But yeah, we still we still got to might got to go through one or two people to get to LinkedIn, but that’s another story. >> You know what? So So here here’s here’s the tell, right? And and I’m glad you said LinkedIn because that is I think that’s like the crossroads where everybody’s going to bump heads. Mhm. >> In your organization, past, present, who’s paid for LinkedIn? >> Last, they’re both been different. The last one, the last one, uh, EB did. >> Mhm. >> This one, uh, marketing has, and to be honest, there may be some type of split, um, in there some way. So, I won’t I have didn’t get into the the nitty-gritty of the contract, so I I won’t say who’s doing what, but it’s definitely been I’ve seen both. >> Okay. All right. I’ll tell you, nine times out of 10, >> TA. >> Yeah. Really? The whole thing. >> Nine times out of 10, they own the contract because the because the jobs section, the uh the storytelling as far as employment is concerned, right? far far better outcome and ROI uh for talent acquisition and HR organizations than we’ve seen for corporate brand or consumer, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Um however, even though I’ve seen nine times out of 10 where TA pays for it or HR is paying for it, >> they still get told when they could post >> that. I was like, I I refuse to be the one who’s spending the budget and I I can’t post twice a week. >> That’s crazy to me, right? So, so insight and everything. So, yeah, there’s definitely a there’s different pieces of uh of LinkedIn that I would say they split. >> Hey there, quick pause before we jump back in. If you’re enjoying the conversation and want to hear more, head over to the Shaker podcast page at shaker.com where you can catch every episode from this season and seasons past. And more importantly, if what you’re hearing sparks ideas about your own EVP and employer brand, I’d love to connect. Just scroll down to the ready to work with John section, drop in your info, and we’ll get some time on the calendar so we can dream out loud together. Now, let’s get you back to your episode. Got it. So, so speaking of that, so then where in your organizations have you sat, right? So employer brand typically or historically has sat in the talent acquisition function or HR under the HR umbrella where where have you uh landed in the or >> org structure. So I started in HR operations asking me well how that’s where I was. That’s where I was. >> Nobody knew where to put you. That’s >> they know where to put me. >> Yeah. >> If you know it’s real when your manager doesn’t know what you do. You know like that’s the crazy part. It’s like you want me more. Okay. Well, you know come come present that to you know what what I will say is because I was the only one. I made my way to sit at some tables >> that I, you know, may not have had the opportunity to. So, um, definitely there was some opportunity in being the only one that was the only one or no one knowing what you’re doing or what you know there there was some way to make noise and then be be seen. Um, now I sit in the um people and culture team which is our HR function. >> Okay. Okay. Got it. I I am saying uh seeing um I’ve seen at least three in the past year that sit directly in the comm side >> um and the brand like under comms and uh brand or marketing which historically I mean I I grew up in TA uh not as a recruiter but as an employer brand and recruitment marketer um and I I always had this affinity like no this should be in TA because we’re telling the employee story and trying to attract and engage and retain talent. But I always felt this deprioritization by not just comms and marketing but the broader organization because it was always attached to TA. Mhm. >> And so over time, I think even being outside of being an internal practitioner now a consultant, like from the 30,000 foot view, I kind of believe like this should probably sit in comms or brand um or marketing because for a couple of reasons, but I think primarily uh the credibility that goes with being in an organization that is designed to amplify or be the voice of an organization. Mhm. >> And then you have uh a leadership structure that understands branding. So employer branding as an extension or you know an offshoot of branding practice and then the budgets. >> They do get the budget >> man. They get money. >> They get the money. Let me tell but I got a great story with that. That’s why you have to be friends with them. That is why you have to be friends and and realize that you are on the same team. And when you can get to the point where you are on the same team for the same organization to reach the business objectives, then it’s beautiful. And I can say one of my proud moments is at my organization where we did not have a budget or you know anything for employer branding and I’m making noise and I’m saying we need EVP EVP and I got this little small budget and I think we were supposed to go work with like Shaker at the time or something right and I’m like what is Shaker going to do with this? And um but I was trying to get something to shake and I remember um pitching actually that might be I’m trying to think was that my first encounterment with Shaker but um we had a we had a budget and I was having conversations to get an idea of what this cost and I’m like we don’t got money for that. What about maybe we could do our own research first or maybe like I was trying to figure things out. Um, but I remember like going to my manager saying I, you know, we need more than this and it got so high up that I ended up presenting to marketing and being friends with marketing. And then because marketing already had the relationship with a different agency, not it wasn’t Shaker, but it was a different agency. We used their marketing retainer and and their um their agency relationship and their budget to do the EVP and anything that was extra could fit in my budget. You see what I’m saying? So, I was able to collaborate and that was my victory story was collaborating with marketing on my going into my fourth year and getting that partnership. And it’s one of my like I love now I left right when we we launched the EVP. >> So, it was like a a while to get there. a year of the the project, discovery, focus groups, all of it, and then the branding. And then I had left. And so now when I see it all over online, I’m like, >> that feels good, doesn’t it? >> Look at my little baby over there. You know, yeah, I really I really enjoy it. But it it came we were stronger when we were together. >> Okay, >> that’s a that’s a word. >> That’s a whole word. I I I love the approach and I think figuring out that and and I think the the key here for those listening is um aligning to the business objectives, >> right? This isn’t my ego. This isn’t your ego. We both work for the same company, right? This isn’t your company, not mine. >> We’re trying to achieve a business objective. In our case, we support the attraction, engagement, and retention of talent through great storytelling and brand perception um positioning in the marketplace. Point being, we need to achieve that. Here’s how we can do that. And you have a plethora of resources at your hand >> at your hands and fingertips and the ear of important people in the organization. So like how can we do this together? >> Mhm. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. >> Absolutely. >> There really is. There really is. So So you talked about building building this beautiful thing that when you left you got to see it in the wild, which is a great feeling in general. Um the importance of activation, right? So, it’s one thing to have the data, you have your EVP, then it’s another thing to build and craft a brand that’s aesthetically beautiful and narratively um compelling. >> Mhm. >> But then how do you bring it to life? >> Yeah, that’s that. >> What’s your take on that? Well, there’s so many touch points and I think this is where I’ve seen um employer branding shift and kind of like where my role is even shifting now is that the EVP and the employer brand and you know recruitment marketing all the things but there you have to touch employees at every given touch point. It’s not just the website with the nice branding, right? It has to be like, you know, when they first heard about you, whether it was, I don’t know, a social media post or, you know, whatever it was, but it has to go throughout the whole process over over to them clicking and applying. Okay, now they’re being onboarded. Okay, there’s the website. Now, you’re speaking to a recruiter. What are they saying? You know, the the the talking points that they’re using. Okay, now they’re onboarded and they’re going into the 90 days. what are they feeling like the EVP and everything is sprinkled into all of that because that is all a part of the employee experience and so um what I’m seeing in my role is the EVP and the culture work are like handinand um I know us personally we just went through both projects um and just seeing how related they are you know redoing our company values and the culture like transformation at the same time as the EVP And I have kind of like expanded my role. I’m not only just doing employer branding and storytelling. Like I’ve actually grown into like let me help bring this culture to life and through the stories that we’re telling and and making sure that everything is cohesive um throughout the whole employee life cycle. So I’ve seen it evolve for sure. >> The evolution is is constant. And I’m I’m glad you brought that up too because I think where this work is going is a is a whole another hour into itself. But but I think um I I was recently speaking to somebody uh about uh doing this work in partnership with the uh employee experience team internally and it was the first time I’d heard of like this intentionality behind crafting a brand but specifically through employee experience. And I’m like that makes perfect sense because if I think about like what the EVP research is going to uncover >> that’s a perfect alioop to employee experience who can identify where the gaps are today, you know, between what the company thinks their uh culture is and what it actually is based on experience and then start to like work backwards from that and in resolving those issues where you can start to improve employee experience. Um but I think to your point from first touch point with social post or external um uh brand expression all the way to that conversation with the recruiter and the follow-ups thereafter and the job descriptions before like so many touch points and you’re absolutely right. It’s like where do you start? Right. Especially when you’ve got the thing ready now it’s time to launch. >> Do you start internally? Do you start >> externally? Do you do both? >> Yeah. Where do you go? >> I I believe in that internal external approach. Um, personally, I just feel like >> the last thing you want to do is launch something externally and your employees are like, >> what is it? >> Like what is this? You know what I’m saying? >> And so I definitely believe like, okay, let’s start with our people. Let’s start with talking to the managers and the PE, you know, people managers and like on board them. let them know, let them enable them so that they feel um knowledgeable about what’s coming and so that they can be prepared to talk to their their teams about what’s happening, right? Um and then you know then you talk to the well you have your leadership so leadership and then people managers and then maybe it’s um you know your employees you’re rolling out internal coms you have your employee matters um whatever your your calls are called monthly um ours are employee matters okay all hand all hand meetings town hall >> town halls yeah sure >> um whatever those meetings are introduce it make people feel good about it get people excited um watch parties or employ you know internal gatherings um so people can experience it and and and be a part of it. I think that’s important for the first step. Um, personally, maybe sprinkle it externally around that time, but um, I definitely think I I would hate to see some new branding and new messaging externally and I’m like, “Oh, that’s what we’re doing now as an employee, like, oh, I’m a little late to this cookout.” And um, I feel like, you know, you definitely want to enable your people first. >> Yeah. So, so there’s there’s so much to do even with that, right? So, I I know some folks, me personally, I’ve always been a sucker for a good employer brand video, right? Like that that that heartstring rallying cry documentary style visual that that brings the culture to life, brings the stories, the people um >> you know, the people behind the the company to life. Um, but there’s got to like there’s got to be more than just a content strategy. Like it what I say is if if the brand um a brand is not a brand until your employees can touch it. >> You know what I’m saying? Because otherwise it’s just an email. >> Yeah. >> It’s just a post on the internet. >> I need to feel it. Yeah. >> I need an experience like >> that. That’s what I’m saying when you were talking about the employee experience team and like you know the engagement stuff like that stuff’s important like those in-person activations um so that people can feel it you know and and be a part of that I can say I just said we went through our culture transformation and we just launched our new values and everything same con same steps really as the EVP like to get there you know the the research that’s done and everything is is similar and um but yeah we we we’re activating that in person and making sure that um you know employees you know they’re getting like whether it’s information sessions whether we you know had like we had lounges that were branded by our um you know values and um you know you have the swag and just different things that you’re giving out um to make them feel good about it. You’re presenting you’re you’re telling the stories of your people to bring that to life like you really you have to get creative with it and let people have that experience um and then they’ll buy it. they they’ll feel empowered by what you’re saying. And now you have now you have an ambassador. Now you have somebody that wants to go tell I’m enabled now. I’m empowered and inspired to go tell my story as an employee. >> I swear I didn’t pay her, folks. I did not pay her for this this interview. This is just good employer branding. Like this is good stuff. >> Look, I’m a hard segue to two different acronyms that are very popular right now. >> And you have a choice. This is This is Paige’s choice. >> All right. >> Do you want to start with AI or DEI? >> Listen here. AI’s taking over. So, I’m going to go to de and I >> even though that’s a lot going on. Let me go back to AI. >> I don’t know. >> Right. Right. Right. Right. All right. >> I go and I Let’s go. >> De and I. All right. So, obviously, where are we? We are in uh March. uh and it feels like it’s been about 8 months >> in the first month and a half of 2025. >> DEI unto itself is going through an evolution. I’ll say I’ll try and keep it aspirational. But when it comes to being an employer brand practitioner in in the context of DEI, there’s a lot of uncertainty and questions and pullbacks and doubled downs. What is your take on how DEI is impacting how employer branding practitioners have to move now? >> Yeah, I think at the end of the day, it’s it’s messy, right? it it’s it’s externally, you know, there’s a lot going on and you want to make sure you’re following your company’s protocols and and guidelines and and rightfully so, but you also want to make sure that voices are still heard, people are still seen and people want to know that your organization still stands behind them or they want to know your views or or whatnot. And I think in employer branding, I mean, we just went through all this transition during Black History Month, during International Women’s Day. So this shift in the space during those times I can definitely say as I was developing stories and and having conversations I’m like I you know I want to say second guessing it but like hey is this okay or how are we positioning like I don’t want to put anything out that is not who we are where we are with things. So I need to fact check make sure like you know what are we standing on and get that buy in internally before going externally. So I think you’re just you’re you’re having to have conversations with high up and leadership and you know your comm’s teams and everybody just to make sure that you’re not missing the mark. You’re being trans trying to be transparent. Um I think transparency is key in this moment. Um like you know where you’re progressing where where where are you like hey we hear you you know. Um I think that that’s important and I can say has won a long way, you know, from our leadership standing behind um it all right now in this movement. So I it’s definitely a shift though. There’s definitely a shift and I probably asked a couple more questions and permissions before pushing the the red, you know, the button um just to make sure. >> But um yeah, that’s a lot. Yeah, you said a lot of great things and I think there’s there’s wisdom in staying aligned with your legal team first and >> lot of wisdom in that you want to keep your >> we should probably >> you should probably check with them >> start there start there but then even in the comm’s team right who is in lock step with legal and seuite in terms of how they’re um positioning and speaking about the organization but from a from a branding perspective, right? The the need to and I I’ll say the branding and the recruitment marketing side. So the need to position the brand is differentiated or position the culture is differentiated to attract, engage and retain. So that’s one. But then the means by which you are connecting with prospective talent out in the marketplace, whether it’s through programmatic job distribution, digital ads, SEO, all those other things. And the messaging that goes with all of that stuff is now largely like up in the air. People don’t know what can I say? Can we can we use diverse anymore? Like and I’ I’ve seen you know companies >> what’s that >> I said or is it true? You know you’re saying this but is it >> Well, that’s always been the case. >> No, you’re right. you have something like I’m going just going to say like a target, you know, who you know this is just I mean y’all can you know Google it, but it’s like you buy into it and then you take it away and then you buy in and it’s like I don’t even know how I feel anymore. So >> yeah. Yeah. And that’s that’s also the challenge, right? So a lot of truth is not represented in the headlines, right? when you peel back layers and you dig in and you read the statements from companies or you know the co chief diversity officers and you’re like well no this was this was only a five-year initiative right which ends now and we’ve achieved what we said we would the timing’s horrible yes box was checked >> box was checked >> but but now it looks like we’re pulling back because of whatever’s going on in the administration right so there’s there’s to your point, I think the the the key here, folks, it’s messy. It’s messy and it’s day by day. >> So, you know, I was just filter, >> but um >> No, no, you you spoke no lies. >> It is a little messy, but I definitely think um I I appreciate I appreciate my organization. I appreciate uh companies that are standing on like I said, you know, I still stand behind my people at the end of the day and and these initiatives and um and so I think that’s important. >> Couldn’t agree more. Uh how you show up for your employees regardless of what the external uh PR campaigns or statements made or acquiescence uh to government contract requirements. Uh if you’re showing up for your people and they feel like seen, safe, and heard, >> then you’re winning. And there’s a story to tell with that, >> right? Which we as employer brands are like, “Oh, that’s a great story. >> It is a great story >> to feel heard and se like I said, seen.” So yeah, it’s it’s a time, but um >> okay, >> I’ve seen lots of lots going on in this employer brand space with the world, you know, just this 2020 2122, you know, pandemic, everything. We’ve seen a lot. We’ve been through a lot in this employer brand space with de andi and >> everything. >> Yeah. Which which I think brought a lot of great stories, too. I mean, the the close connectedness to ERG’s, employee resource groups or employee business resource groups or affinity groups, whatever you may call them, uh has produced a lot of great spotlight stories and highlight stories throughout not just um for cultural heritage months, but just in general about your organization and getting the people behind. And so those were great internal um connections to be able to, you know, go and uh grab great stories. But uh >> wait, can I say something really quick? The ERGS and these moments in time. I just want to give you a gem really quick about these moments of time. Please do not only spotlight your people of color or minority groups or members of ERG’s during these observance days. Um I will say from an employee brand space um if I’m on your social media and I see you know only content in February of a you know certain things or only you know woman in in March. I have questions and I can see through that. I’m just being honest. So, I just ask that you please just do not do it only on observance days. You know, add it to your strategy for the year. I think that is very important and would really help you align and recruit the talent you’re looking for intentionally. >> This is why it’s employer branding unfiltered >> because what you just said >> is exactly what I have said. Um, and this is this is the again another hourong conversation, but you know, if if you if you only recognize communities based on the month that they’re supposed to be recognized, does it add value to do all of this content, social post, events, and then nothing else for the rest of the year? Who is the primary beneficiary in that? Is it the community or is it the company? >> Oh, we look good. Box check. I mean, >> right. So, so the perform the performative nature of it. Yes. But if you don’t do it, right, because it’s it’s that time of year, so we have to do it for these communities, but if you don’t do it, so so what I’ve asked is, well, have you talked to those communities to see how they want to be celebrated? What’s meaningful? Mhm. >> When is meaningful? >> What platform? If we do the celebration but don’t post it externally on social, is it still valid? >> Mhm. >> I’m just asking questions at this point cuz I’m like it just feels like it’s just wrote routine, right? Like, >> oh, it’s February again. I guess we have to celebrate the black folks. It’s uh >> it’s it’s March. >> Yeah, it’s March. We got to tell women stories. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, so I’m just we we need to evolve that >> for sure >> and find someone else for the website, but that’s another story. >> That is another story. Find just diversify your content, people. Please >> listen, I’m I’m waiting to see the the the career site that just doesn’t have any people on it. They’re like, you know what? We don’t know. We don’t know what to do. So, we just put >> black and white pictures. They are the best. >> They are. >> Maybe AI generated. Maybe AI generated. Yeah. Maybe just robots. I don’t know. Speaking of robots, AI. >> Yeah, let’s talk about it. >> So, so yes, AI for the past two years now has taken over everything. It’s in every conference conversation. It’s in every stage at a conference, AI is there. Uh, every podcast, uh, everywhere. It’s it’s so it from an employer branding standpoint, where are you seeing AI coming for better or for worse? right? Helpful, whatever. How are you seeing AI uh pushing EB forward? >> I definitely think AI allows us to diversify and hear, you know, get more voices per se um in the sense of idea ideation, you know, and being able to to learn um >> you know, just different being able to speak to different people, diversify the content and whatnot. What I will say is I was in a conference in LinkedIn um a couple months ago and they were talking about AI storytelling and um how it could hurt minority groups or something because depending on who’s using it and the data that’s being um requested or inputed in there, it could have bias in a lot of the AI and a lot of the data. And so you just have to be careful I feel like um when it comes to what you’re listening to or you can’t just write a story. it’s like whose perspective, whose tone is that um at the end of the day. Um so I know I I I like to use it in the sense of different perspectives and different types of ideas and just different things like that and I think that helps bring employer branding forward per se. Um I would say our organization is just now really touching the surface of it in the employer brand space. So as far as like how how like what tools are available or um you know how to enhance a story per se. So, ask me again in a year and I’ll tell you where we are. Um, but but I would say for me personally, it’s it’s helped me like just get outside the box a little bit more and get um creative in my my storytelling and such. >> I love it. I love it. Yeah, it’s certainly from a creative uh partner, thought partner um sense checker uh you know um really working through things from end to end has been a lot easier with EB >> uh EB with AI >> um as far as like EB shifting with AI. >> Yeah. So a couple couple of platforms I mean everything from advocacy um you know and in incorporating AI for um content generation and at at scale for employee populations to um you know creative uh you know being able to load in guidelines and employer brand yeah toolkits and then having >> new creative created out of that through AI like game changer, right? Instead of >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, so there’s there’s a lot of I think efficiencies and productivity uh advancements there, but I still don’t see us getting away from that human element that you know requirement. >> Well, you can’t just because and to kind of what I just said too, it’s like the one the people’s stories matter and then you can’t just rely on AI because whose story is that? Like where is that data coming from? You know what I’m saying? So you the people I still think are are definitely important definitely helpful with the toolkits and guidelines and everything. I wasn’t thinking of that. I I think I fought against AI for the longest because I feel like AI got pushed on me. You know it’s like okay enough. >> You didn’t willingly accept it. It was forced upon you. >> It started talking on my computer and you know it’s on the phone and it you know so I had to open up my heart and let AI in um and you know and really and I realized how much it just really helps me you know and be more productive. So it’s >> it sounds like there was an intervention page. I think somebody was pulled you to the side and was like, “Look, girl, you got to embrace this.” >> You got to embrace. Yeah. When it’s in my sleep, I’m going, you know, it’s everything is just AI. AI. I’m like, “Okay, >> learn it. What is it?” You know? >> Oh my gosh. >> So, yeah. No, that’s why I said we’re we’re now adapting, you know, certain things. I’m trying to learn like, okay, just the ways that enhances um our industry. though. >> Absolutely. >> Well, look, I could talk to you forever. Um, this is this is a good this is a good conversation. I think um you’ve given a lot of game, a lot of gems and jewels. Um, so I want to take us into our final segment which is ask a question, leave a question. And I have a question that was left by our previous guest >> and that is uh Paige, what do you predict or where do you predict employer brand evolving to in the next two to three years? [Music] >> Where do I see it going? Well, I think what we started to talk about earlier, I think it’s just going to get on a bigger scale when it comes to that employee experience. Like I really feel that um >> you’re either going to get engaged with your employee experience team, you’re going to build employee experience team, you’re going to like be collaborating with your employee experience team, but I really feel like um you’re going to do a lot more activations, a lot more experiences, and a lot more um bringing your EVP and your people along with you on the journey. Um, I just feel like that’s essential to keep people um, engaged and keep attrition and just attract the right individuals. But I think that employee experience is going to be key and bringing your your um, EVP and your employer brand at each touch point is just going to enhance even further. So where that goes, >> whether it’s inerson activations, whether it’s like what does that look like, no telling. Um, but I can just say it’s moving pretty fast. Like I’m not even in and my role is shifted so much that I don’t even really touch recruitment marketing anymore >> about that. >> And that’s a whole another story. I know we’re ending, but I’m just like I went from recruitment marketing and like pitching stories to recruiters to put out through TA to I’m really sitting in the experience side. >> Um, and so I’m I’m in the shift >> myself. >> I’m in the shift. And I’m I’m in the shift. And so I I wouldn’t be surprised if I was over like on the other side come two years from now. >> We’ll have to follow up and have you back on March of 2027 to see if your prediction rang true. >> Fantastic answer. Um and then in suit uh we’d love for you to leave a question for our next guest. >> Put me on the spot, John. Um >> yes, ma’am. Unfiltered. I want to ask whoever comes on next, what is some what’s a different way that they can listen to their employees and get employees stories, real employee stories um in a way to like incorporate that into their content strategy for the year. >> Okay. >> All right. I’m going to challenge I’m challenging somebody whoever’s on here next. I’m challenging them to like talk to the middle people, you know, talk to the bottom, you know, the the entry level like how how can you reach those individuals and pull those real stories? Um, I don’t know, whatever creative way you come up with, but I just want to hear how do you how can you do that in in this new year to enhance your your social strategies. >> All right. All right. That the challenge is set. Uh, God speed to the next guest. >> Good luck. That was that wasful. So, go with God. That was fantastic. You have >> I love it. I love it. Well, Paige Elliot, thank you so much for the time, the thoughtfulness, the perspective, the journey you’ve taken us on. >> Um, I’m excited for our listeners to to spend some time with you uh in in community in this conversation. >> Uh certainly follow up uh follow page on LinkedIn. We’ll we’ll make sure all the links are there. Um but thank you again for being a guest. Um and we hope to have you back soon. >> Absolutely. Thank you for the the conversation, for the platform, and hello to all my lovely EB family and hope you guys enjoy these gems. Have a good day. >> All right. Now, thanks again, Paige. [Music]